Re: Iraq or the Economy?

by Aaron Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:01 pm

How about mine inspectors? They have failed miserably to do their job but you continually excuse them for their inadequacies and instead shift the blame to coal companies for their continued failures.

You just excused the entire democratic congressional delegation and attempted to shift blame to Republicans.

You’ve excused the actions of labor unions and attempted to blame their short comings on management and corporations.

I never mentioned specific people, did I Frank. I just said all those you 'excused' were woefully inept. I am right.

by ziggy Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:13 pm

Aaron wrote:How about mine inspectors? They have failed miserably to do their job but you continually excuse them for their inadequacies and instead shift the blame to coal companies for their continued failures.

You just excused the entire democratic congressional delegation and attempted to shift blame to Republicans.

You’ve excused the actions of labor unions and attempted to blame their short comings on management and corporations.

I never mentioned specific people, did I Frank. I just said all those you 'excused' were woefully inept. I am right.

How many phantom posts did you combine to come with all that?

And only today you were whining that:

I do believe you've taken two different responses and attempted to show them as one Frank. That's being at the least, deceitful, isn't it Frank!!!

https://gazzfriends.forumotion.com/international-politics-f5/iran-and-us-elections-t1087-15.htm

Deceitful is as deceitful does, isn't it Aaron!!!

At least I use your real posts, not phantom ones.

by ziggy Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:43 pm

Aaron wrote:How about mine inspectors? They have failed miserably to do their job but you continually excuse them for their inadequacies and instead shift the blame to coal companies for their continued failures.

B.S. I have said that lousy mine inspections do not excuse the failures of the companies to comply with the rules. Do you disagree?

You just excused the entire democratic congressional delegation and attempted to shift blame to Republicans.

More B.S. I said that Republicans trade fiscal favors with Democrats, and vice-versa, to get what they want. Do you disagree?

You’ve excused the actions of labor unions and attempted to blame their short comings on management and corporations.

PhD B.S. - piled higher and deeper.

I never mentioned specific people, did I Frank. I just said all those you 'excused' were woefully inept. I am right

Still more B.S. Who did I excuse? Come on. Mention some of those "specific people". What are you afraid of?

I have spent a good part of the past 20 years helping to sue corrupt government agencies- to force compliance with their legal responsibilities. I am not excusing anyone.

by Aaron Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:46 pm

ziggy wrote:
Aaron wrote:How about mine inspectors? They have failed miserably to do their job but you continually excuse them for their inadequacies and instead shift the blame to coal companies for their continued failures.

You just excused the entire democratic congressional delegation and attempted to shift blame to Republicans.

You’ve excused the actions of labor unions and attempted to blame their short comings on management and corporations.

I never mentioned specific people, did I Frank. I just said all those you 'excused' were woefully inept. I am right.

How many phantom posts did you combine to come with all that?

And only today you were whining that:

I do believe you've taken two different responses and attempted to show them as one Frank. That's being at the least, deceitful, isn't it Frank!!!

https://gazzfriends.forumotion.com/international-politics-f5/iran-and-us-elections-t1087-15.htm

Deceitful is as deceitful does, isn't it Aaron!!!

At least I use your real posts, not phantom ones.

I'm not combining anything. You ask who you excused. I told you. Hell, I specifically mentioned the one you excused today.

by Aaron Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:07 pm

ziggy wrote:
Aaron wrote:How about mine inspectors? They have failed miserably to do their job but you continually excuse them for their inadequacies and instead shift the blame to coal companies for their continued failures.

B.S. I have said that lousy mine inspections do not excuse the failures of the companies to comply with the rules. Do you disagree?

That's not true. You have said the reason mine inspectors don't do their job is because the Don Blankenships of the world pay them not to. If I recall correctly (and I do, we both KNOW that) you blamed the Aracoma deaths on Blankenship and Massey even though it was pointed out by several articles and the resulting MSHA investigation that inspectors had been at the site the day before the fire AND the cause of the fire was an approve MSHA method for ventilation that was present during the inspection.

There was also questionable inspection paperwork which you blamed directly back on Massey. I recall very vividly how you and Billy cried afoul when it was pointed out that the CEO of a multi location facility has no way of knowing if one shift inspector is performing for not knowing a incomplete inspections.

The reason I'm so sure of this is because that was one of our first in depth conversations and played a pivitol role in my opinion of some of your viewpoints.

ziggy wrote:
You just excused the entire democratic congressional delegation and attempted to shift blame to Republicans.

More B.S. I said that Republicans trade fiscal favors with Democrats, and vice-versa, to get what they want. Do you disagree?

The original post and the topic is that democrats control Congress, thus they control what bills come up for voting. Do you not agree that if democrats and democrats alone wanted to stop funding, the could very easily do that? Yet instead of agreeing with what even Sherm as agreed to, you attempted to shift the blame to Republicans. This is one you can't hide from Frank. It's right there in black and white.

ziggy wrote:
You’ve excused the actions of labor unions and attempted to blame their short comings on management and corporations.

PhD B.S. - piled higher and deeper.

How many times have you excused the teachers unions alone? No BS about it!!!

ziggy wrote:
I never mentioned specific people, did I Frank. I just said all those you 'excused' were woefully inept. I am right

Still more B.S. Who did I excuse? Come on. Mention some of those "specific people". What are you afraid of?

I have spent a good part of the past 20 years helping to sue corrupt government agencies- to force compliance with their legal responsibilities. I am not excusing anyone.

So you say. But at the same time you blame faulty inspections on the company for buying off inspectors. You blame industrial accidents on the corporation for conditions you know nothing about instead of the individual worker. You just blamed democrats, who control Congress for selling out and going back on their word for the umptenth time on Republicans for fiscal favors. You've excused the teachers unions for the conditions of our schools, bringing it back on the legislature.

No BS about any of it Frank, you're an excuser for those who share your liberal, socialist agenda. Of course, as I pointed out, considering how woefully inept they are, I understand why you make so many excuses.

by **Stephanie** Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:12 am

Aaron,

If CEO's aren't responsible for critical issues like safety and the job performance of the underlings, just what are they getting paid the big bucks for? Their looks?

by Aaron Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:12 pm

Do you have any idea how many levels exist between a pre-entry inspector and a CEO of a billion dollar, multi location corporation?

So if a pre-entry inspector doesn't do his job at Logan, WV and it's not caught by site safety director who can't report it to the regional safety director who can report it to the safety director who can't report it to the proper VP who can't report it to the President who can't report it to the CEO, pray tell, how is the CEO supposed to know the site inspector is fuding his paperwork?

by SamCogar Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:26 pm

Why now they teach every kid in school in West Virginia that ole Sam Walton was responsible for everything every janitor did when on the job in one of his stores.

Santa Claus drove a red sleigh around to every house one (1) day out of each year to deliver presents.

But Sam Walton drove his red pickup to every one of his stores ..... every day ...... to make sure the janitors cleaned the pissers in the females restrooms.

.

by ziggy Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:27 pm

No BS about any of it Frank, you're an excuser for those who share your liberal, socialist agenda. Of course, as I pointed out, considering how woefully inept they are, I understand why you make so many excuses.

If you have specific posts you want to go over again, then, as the man says, bring 'em on. Roll 'em back up and we can have at it. Otherwise, you are just hallucinating.

by Aaron Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:31 pm

You say that knowing the post referring to the Aracoma mine is on the old forum. That doesn't change the fact that you excused the MSHA inspector and the pre-shift inspector for their shortcomings and blamed it all on Don Blankenship. We both know that to be true, don't we Frank!!!

by ziggy Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:37 pm

No, we don't.

You are hallucinating- or deliberately fabricating. Holding a CEO responsible for his company not following the regulations is not to excuse government regulators who do not do their job. And in your more rational moments you have agreed with me that lax enforcement does not excuse companies and their employees from their responsibility to follow the laws.

by Aaron Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:45 pm

I know that Frank. I also know that's EXACTLY what you said in response to the publishing of the ARACOMA investigation. That's when I first figured out how looney you truely are. You can deny all you want but we both know the truth.

by ziggy Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:57 pm

Deny being looney? Hell no, I do not deny being looney. I am known for it.

So Aaron, do you have any proof of your own non-looniness?

by **Stephanie** Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:23 pm

Aaron wrote:Do you have any idea how many levels exist between a pre-entry inspector and a CEO of a billion dollar, multi location corporation?

So if a pre-entry inspector doesn't do his job at Logan, WV and it's not caught by site safety director who can't report it to the regional safety director who can report it to the safety director who can't report it to the proper VP who can't report it to the President who can't report it to the CEO, pray tell, how is the CEO supposed to know the site inspector is fuding his paperwork?

Aaron,

I don't care if there is one level or one thousand levels or one million levels. The CEO gets paid the big bucks to make sure all of those levels are doing their jobs. He's making a very enviable salary not to sit on his arse in some posh office smoking Cuban cigars and drinking Chevas Regal, but to make sure his employees are making a profit in a safe and legal manner.

by ziggy Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:44 pm

He's making a very enviable salary not to sit on his arse in some posh office smoking Cuban cigars and drinking Chevas Regal, but to make sure his employees are making a profit in a safe and legal manner.

Maybe, or maybe not, Stephanie. That depends on that particular corporate culture. And in the coal company corporate culture, that culture is "making a profit" first, and "in a safe and legal manner" seems to mostly mean only if someone or other- usually a union or a government agency- forces you to be safe and legal.

by Cato Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:28 pm

ziggy wrote:
Neither party can get the other one to sober up. They are all out of control spendoholics.

The problem is that we think in terms of parties, when there is no clear difference in either side. You are completely correct when you state they are out of control spendoholics. I would add to that they are egotistical narcissistists who have little concern about anythoing other than themselves and their political careers.

The real problem however, isn't the politicians. The root problem lays almost entirely witht he voteing public. A majority of the pulbic has become so duped and so apathitic that they no longer exercise their right at the polls. The politicians have long since written these people off and instead cater tot he few that do cast their vote. It think one can see where that has got us. When you look at candidates, they are generally saying the samething, only packaged to a specific group of people. The is no difference between what the democratsand republican are saying. Both sides are strongly socialistic and strongly interventionistic and imperialistic. Obama McCain there is no difference in their message.

by shermangeneral Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:34 pm

SamCogar wrote:Why now they teach every kid in school in West Virginia that ole Sam Walton was responsible for everything every janitor did when on the job in one of his stores.

Santa Claus drove a red sleigh around to every house one (1) day out of each year to deliver presents.

But Sam Walton drove his red pickup to every one of his stores ..... every day ...... to make sure the janitors cleaned the pissers in the females restrooms.

.

by shermangeneral Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:41 pm

SamCogar wrote:Why now they teach every kid in school in West Virginia that ole Sam Walton was responsible for everything every janitor did when on the job in one of his stores.

Santa Claus drove a red sleigh around to every house one (1) day out of each year to deliver presents.

But Sam Walton drove his red pickup to every one of his stores ..... every day ...... to make sure the janitors cleaned the pissers in the females restrooms.

.

Well now that is total BS.

I had several kids in school and they never learned any such thing.

Howbout the others do any of you still have kids in public school who have learned any such thing.

by Aaron Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:12 pm

Stephanie wrote:
Aaron wrote:Do you have any idea how many levels exist between a pre-entry inspector and a CEO of a billion dollar, multi location corporation?

So if a pre-entry inspector doesn't do his job at Logan, WV and it's not caught by site safety director who can't report it to the regional safety director who can report it to the safety director who can't report it to the proper VP who can't report it to the President who can't report it to the CEO, pray tell, how is the CEO supposed to know the site inspector is fuding his paperwork?

Aaron,

I don't care if there is one level or one thousand levels or one million levels. The CEO gets paid the big bucks to make sure all of those levels are doing their jobs. He's making a very enviable salary not to sit on his arse in some posh office smoking Cuban cigars and drinking Chevas Regal, but to make sure his employees are making a profit in a safe and legal manner.

I don't know whether to laugh at how ridiculous that post is or just feel for you because you just don't get it.

by Aaron Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:12 pm

ziggy wrote:Deny being looney? Hell no, I do not deny being looney. I am known for it.

So Aaron, do you have any proof of your own non-looniness?

Don't you know, you can't prove a negative!!!

by Aaron Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:13 pm

ziggy wrote:
He's making a very enviable salary not to sit on his arse in some posh office smoking Cuban cigars and drinking Chevas Regal, but to make sure his employees are making a profit in a safe and legal manner.

Maybe, or maybe not, Stephanie. That depends on that particular corporate culture. And in the coal company corporate culture, that culture is "making a profit" first, and "in a safe and legal manner" seems to mostly mean only if someone or other- usually a union or a government agency- forces you to be safe and legal.

About the response you would expect from someone that is anti coal.

by Aaron Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:16 pm

shermangeneral wrote:
SamCogar wrote:Why now they teach every kid in school in West Virginia that ole Sam Walton was responsible for everything every janitor did when on the job in one of his stores.

Santa Claus drove a red sleigh around to every house one (1) day out of each year to deliver presents.

But Sam Walton drove his red pickup to every one of his stores ..... every day ...... to make sure the janitors cleaned the pissers in the females restrooms.

.

Well now that is total BS.

I had several kids in school and they never learned any such thing.

Howbout the others do any of you still have kids in public school who have learned any such thing.

Don't you know Sherm that the CEO (Sam Walton) is supposed to know EVERYTHING that goes on at EVERY location. Stephanie just said so and Frank agreed with her.

by ziggy Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:22 pm

That is just more B.S. Aaron.

by ziggy Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:25 pm

Aaron wrote:
ziggy wrote:
He's making a very enviable salary not to sit on his arse in some posh office smoking Cuban cigars and drinking Chevas Regal, but to make sure his employees are making a profit in a safe and legal manner.

Maybe, or maybe not, Stephanie. That depends on that particular corporate culture. And in the coal company corporate culture, that culture is "making a profit" first, and "in a safe and legal manner" seems to mostly mean only if someone or other- usually a union or a government agency- forces you to be safe and legal.

About the response you would expect from someone that is anti coal.

So it's not true? Or is it that corporate culture is just not important to you?

by Aaron Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:17 am

Profit is not a bad word Frank.

And unless you have proof that a comany is violating laws, rules and regulations to make a profit, save your rant.

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