Republican grandstanders throw Bush under bus.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080926/ap_on_bi_ge/financial_meltdown

Looks like McCain is gonna have blisters on his butt from riding the fence.

Dems appear more willing to put politics aside and try to work with President Bush for the good of the country, but rightwing idealogues in the republican party appear willing to ride it out all the way to the bottom.

President Bush and the Democrat leadership are willing to negotiate further but it is not clear if the frenzied far right idealogues will even meet with them.

Maybe if the stock mkt. crashes again today that will get their attention.

But watching them on television you can see a bunch of them are getting that glazed over look in their eyes like they are ready for Custer's last stand.

So we should have lots to discuss on here today unless all the righties are tied up on a conference call or something.

This could be an opportunity for Ron Paul to step up and show some leadership and help work things out but it probably won't happen.

Maybe the largest bank failure in history will get their attention.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080925/business_us_washingtonmutual_jpmorganbiz.html?.v=3

Yes, that is a good example. It was bailed out using private money.

This bailout is NOT for the good of the country and government intervention will only PROLONG the hurting, just as it did in the 30's.

What I want to know where is Ron Paul in all this?

Is he trying to help reach an agreement or is he being an obstructionist?

One man's obstruction is another man's principle.

http://www.libertymaven.com/2008/09/25/ron-paul-responds-to-president-bushs-address/2125/

Well he makes it clear he does not support the President's plan.

But if he offered any alternative plan I missed it.

Do you know what his solution is?

The mainstream media have not been covering any alternative plans, if there are any.

Speaking about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the president said: “Because these companies were chartered by Congress, many believed they were guaranteed by the federal government. This allowed them to borrow enormous sums of money, fuel the market for questionable investments, and put our financial system at risk.”

Doesn’t that prove the foolishness of chartering Fannie and Freddie in the first place? Doesn’t that suggest that maybe, just maybe, government may have contributed to this mess? And of course, by bailing out Fannie and Freddie, hasn’t the federal government shown that the “many” who “believed they were guaranteed by the federal government” were in fact correct?

Fannie Mae was chartered in 1938 as part of FDR's new deal, which PROLONGED the depression.

OK so he does not support FDR's plan or Bush's plan.

But the question was what does he support?

That is if you know.

(for someone who prides himself on always answering questions you seem to be a little uncomfortable with this one...)

Who me??? I'm not uncomfortable with anything.

I'm not a big Ron Paul supporter and I certainly don't hang on his ever word, but I think it's safe to say that he favors the government doing nothing in this situation and allowing the markets to work as a free market are supposed to. That would be my short answer.

The long answer, if you need one, can be found in any of a number of postings by Stephanie and start with elimination of the Federal Reserve and a return to a sound monetary policy which I pretty much agree with.

Ron Paul says:

1.) End the Bailouts - Congress must revoke the Federal Reserve's authority to bail out failed businesses at your expense.

2.) Cut Taxes and Curb Regulation - If we really want to stimulate businesses and revive the market, we need to cut corporate and capital gains taxes, spurring investors to come back to the market and making it easier to attract new workers and clients. It is also time to end failed legislation like Sarbanes-Oxley, which has crippled capital markets, diminished our competitiveness, and greatly harmed small businesses.

3.) Reduce Spending - We must freeze all non-entitlement spending by the federal government at current levels and eliminate wasteful spending both domestically and in our trillion-dollar overseas budget. Our debt has to come down, and it won't until we start living within our means.

4.) Reform the Monetary System - If we are to have long-term economic progress, we must end the system of printing money out of thin air. The current laws limiting the circulation of gold and silver-backed currency must be overturned. We can no longer base our money on the empty promises of bureaucrats that it is sound.

So let me make sure I understand.

The short answer is to do nothing.

But the long answer is eliminate the Federal Reserve, return to the gold standard, do away with Fannie and Freddie, and remove regulations from banks and credit unions?

So I guess you and he would vote for #2 above?

Absolutely not.

You're refusing to learn from history, and you flat out refuse to listen to the experts, the top economists.

Bailing out Fannie and Freddie will only temporarily stall, and ultimately worsen, what is to come. The experts say it and history has proven it.

No, not me, not completely. I'm not for curbing regulation. If anything, I'm for increasing it.

It's the one thing I think government is the only entity set up to oversee industry. I do think that politicians shouldn't be able to receive political donations for organizations they have oversight responsibility.

I cant tell who is answering who so I will hold my fire...

I was answering you.

Stephanie wrote:Absolutely not.

You're refusing to learn from history, and you flat out refuse to listen to the experts, the top economists.

Bailing out Fannie and Freddie will only temporarily stall, and ultimately worsen, what is to come. The experts say it and history has proven it.

wELL NOW i AM CONFUSED.

i TOLD YOU i WAS TRYING TO KEEP AN OPEN MIND BUT IF i HAD TO VOTE YESTERDAY i WOULD VOTE NO.

Now I am kinda leaning the other way.

So maybe you can make a case I am waffling, but not that I am "flat out refusing to listen to experts"

The difference between us as I see it is I am listening to the "experts" on both sides while you are only listening to the so-called "experts" on one side.

I would rather be a waffler than a bonehead.

I am capable of changing my mind.

And I might change it again.

Unlike some, I do not consider my opinion infallible.

sodbuster wrote:

Stephanie wrote:Absolutely not.

You're refusing to learn from history, and you flat out refuse to listen to the experts, the top economists.

Bailing out Fannie and Freddie will only temporarily stall, and ultimately worsen, what is to come. The experts say it and history has proven it.

wELL NOW i AM CONFUSED.

i TOLD YOU i WAS TRYING TO KEEP AN OPEN MIND BUT IF i HAD TO VOTE YESTERDAY i WOULD VOTE NO.

Now I am kinda leaning the other way.

So maybe you can make a case I am waffling, but not that I am "flat out refusing to listen to experts"

The difference between us as I see it is I am listening to the "experts" on both sides while you are only listening to the so-called "experts" on one side.

I would rather be a waffler than a bonehead.

I am capable of changing my mind.

And I might change it again.

Unlike some, I do not consider my opinion infallible.

Sherm,

It's all well and good to change your mind when you realize the error of your ways. Some of us do it fairly frequently. I, for example, initially supported the invasion of Iraq. Obviously, I have changed my mind. I realize the error of my ways.

I remained quiet on Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac & the bailout until I had an understanding of the situation. I'm not talking about the sound bytes you get from Katie Couric or Charlie Gibson or Shep (my personal fave) Smith.

I've done a lot of reading about it. I read all about how Fannie & Freddie came into existance and when, and how they have "evolved" over time. I read all about the changes that have been made, particularly in the past 15 years, but going back even further.

I'm taking the advice of the financial experts, the world's top economists. I'm also reading about the events that lead up to the Great Depression and how the nation pulled itself out of economic collapse in 1921. Not to mention I'm using a bit of good old fashioned common sense.

The very notion of handing over $700 billion to Paulson, with absolutely ZERO oversight is lunacy. Read these words carefully:

"Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."

The taxpayers shouldn't be bailing out bankers who, out of greed and avarice, made poor business decisions. We can't afford the inflation that comes with printing more money out of thin air and we certainly can't afford to add another trillion dollars to the debt we owe China and other foreign nations.

I'd be interested to know your reasons for considering supporting this insanity. Let's be clear, that's what it is, insanity. Go chase down the millions and millions stolen from Fannie & Freddie by greedy political appointees. Throwing good money after bad is never the best course of action. Hold these elected officials accountable. How long many chances to incompetent, greedy, self-serving, lying POS politicians get to fix the ills they themselves helped to create?

Throw them out.

Vote them out.

I'm ready to vote for the oppostion, regardless of party or experience or postion on issues just to get the current crop of useless scumbags out if they continue on this path to financial devastation that is bringing this once great nation to her knees.

I have not said I would support a bailout carte blanche as proposed.
I do however like the concept of people of good will with varying views trying to work out their differences and finding common ground.

As opposed to getting on my hi-horse and declaring everyone who does not agree with me a scumbag.

I often disagree with you but certainly dont consider you a scumbag.

Sherm,

I consider those in power who contributed to this mess, including those who just turned a blind eye and did nothing to avert the disaster they were WARNED was on the horizon, scumbags. They care only about their own personal wealth and power. Their greed has caused this and I want those who have committed crimes to face a jury and I want those who passed legislation, and those who appointed the idiots who created YSP's and stole millions from Fannie & Freddie thrown out on their butts.

I'm not calling "you" a scumbag. I am calling the vast majority of people who have held seats on Capitol Hill over the course of the past 30 years lowlifes, because of the role they have played in this. Throw the bums out.

Here is an E-mail I received from a friend in NY this morning.

Me thinks the citizens everywhere are really getting pissed.

Below lists an activist web site to add your name to a petition to create responsible legislation that deals with the current financial "Wall Street" troubles. It is worthwhile to take a look at the link and see the points of the petition. You can then decide to add your name, or not.

bob.

Subject: No blank check for Wall Street.

Dear Friend,

Congress is on the brink of making a one-sided deal to give George W. Bush a blank check to bail out his pals - offering nearly (or perhaps more than) a trillion taxpayer dollars to Wall Street to cover its bad debts. That works out to somewhere between $2000 and $5000 from every American family. So what do the taxpayers get in return?

Nothing. No new regulation or oversight to help avoid this kind of crisis in the future. No public interest givebacks to help people whose homes are in the hands of the banks. Perhaps most shockingly of all, the taxpayers get absolutely no share in the profits if and when these finance giants bounce back, even though we are now assuming a great deal of the risk.

This is worse than a bad deal - this isn't a deal at all. This is a blank check to some of the richest companies in the world.

I just signed a petition calling on key members of Congress to impose a few sensible conditions to this bailout in order to protect the American people -- I hope you will too.

Please have a look and take action.

http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/no_blank_check/?r_by=963-154867-XBWcuxx&rc=paste

Thanks!