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Betchya can't do it, Sam.

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Betchya can't do it, Sam. Empty Betchya can't do it, Sam.

Post by bmd Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:12 pm

Great American Smokeout is TODAY
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Post by Stephanie Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:18 pm

I smoke for other people's health.
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Post by SamCogar Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:23 am

bmd wrote:Betchya can't do it, Sam.

Great American Smokeout is TODAY

bmd, I'll re-post my poem for you ...... in case you missed the original posting. To wit:

A Cause that created a Carcinogen
The Great American Smokeout


No way, no way, you’ll surely say,
Don’t lie to us, do not betray.
Oh yes, ….. tis true, …. tis true,
The truth is out there ……. if you only knew.

T’was long ago, back in Seventy-One,
When money was needed, for the Scholarship Fund.
In Randolph, Maine, not so far away,
Mullaney said “Don’t smoke today”.

The cause was good, the smoke that day was held back,
The money was donated, that would have bought a pack.
“Great News” said Mullaney, they had met their quota,
His message was heard, far away in Minnesota.

It was a cold day, in Seventy-Four,
That silly Lynn Smith, started knocking on doors.
She was Editor of the paper, she wanted her say,
Thus was born, the state's first Don't Smoke Day.

And “DUH”, what better opportunity to garner money, notoriety and fame,
T’was none other than the American Cancer Society, who joined in the game.
Their Great American Smokeout, was launched forthwith,
The gullible public loved it, and the rest is history, …. to wit:

SC Cogar

-----------------------------

This casual acceptance of smoking was the norm when the American Cancer Society's Great American Smokeout went nationwide more than 25 years ago in November 1977.That quarter century has marked dramatic changes in the way society views tobacco promotion and tobacco use. Many public places and work areas are now smoke-free which protects non-smokers and supports smokers who want to quit.

The American Cancer Society's Great American Smokeout event grew out of a 1971 event in Randolph, MA, in which Arthur P. Mullaney asked people to give up cigarettes for a day and donate the money they would have spent on cigarettes to a high school scholarship fund. In 1974, Lynn R. Smith, editor of the Monticello Times in Minnesota, spearheaded the state's first D-Day, or Don't Smoke Day. The idea caught on, and on Nov. 18, 1976, the California Division of the American Cancer Society succeeded in getting nearly one million smokers to quit for the day. The first national Great American Smokeout was held in 1977.

During the next 25 years the Smokeout was celebrated with rallies, parades, stunts, quitting information, and even "cold turkey" menu items in schools, workplaces, Main Streets, and legislative halls throughout the US.

The Great American Smokeout has helped to spotlight the dangers of tobacco use and the challenges of quitting, but more importantly, it has set the stage for the cultural revolution in tobacco control that has occurred over this period.

Because of the efforts of individuals and groups that have led anti-tobacco efforts, there have been significant landmarks in the areas of research, policy, and the environment:

In 1977, Berkeley, California became the first community to limit smoking in restaurants and other public places.

In 1983, San Francisco passed the first strong workplace smoking restrictions, including bans on smoking in private workplaces.

In 1990, the federal smoking ban on all interstate buses and domestic flights of six hours or less took effect.

In 1994, the state of Mississippi filed the first of 24 state lawsuits seeking to recuperate millions of dollars from tobacco companies for smokers' Medicaid Bills.

In 1999, the Department of Justice filed suit against cigarette manufacturers, charging the industry with defrauding the public by lying about the risks of smoking.

In 1999, the Master Settlement Agreement (MSA) was passed, requiring tobacco companies to pay $206 billion to 45 states by the year 2025 to cover Medicaid costs of treating smokers. The MSA agreement also closed the Tobacco Institute and ended cartoon advertising and tobacco billboards.

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/co..._Changes.a sp

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Betchya can't do it, Sam. Empty Tobacco settlement being misused, activists say

Post by ziggy Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:08 pm

Tobacco settlement being misused, activists say
By The Associated Press

Despite the promises of politicians and policymakers, states and counties have spent the lion's share of the settlement money on things that have nothing to do with public health or smoking, even as once-falling teen smoking rates have stagnated.

Of the $61.5 billion divided among 46 states between 2000 and 2006, only 30 percent was spent on health care, according to federal Government Accountability Office data analyzed by The Associated Press. Less than 4 percent went to anti-smoking efforts.

"A lot of people on both sides thought we were going to enter a new Eden, and we haven't," said Thomas Glynn, director of cancer science and trends at the American Cancer Society.

In June 2007, the state of West Virginia sold its rights to all tobacco settlement payments through 2029 to bond holders for a total of $911 million.

The state's share of the bond issue, $807 million, was transferred into the Teachers Retirement System to help pay down a huge unfunded liability for teachers' pension costs.

The state budgets about $6.6 million a year for tobacco cessation programs - or less than one-fourth the $27.8 million that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported in 2007 the state should be spending each year to undertake an effective anti-tobacco effort.

In 2006, Alaska desperately needed cash to complete a museum featuring a mummified bison and other natural wonders of the frozen north. So the state dipped into its share of the landmark 1998 tobacco settlement.

The billions that began flowing from cigarette makers to the states a decade ago also helped outfit the Niagara County, N.Y., golf course with new carts and sprinklers. And the money has gone toward college scholarships in Michigan, tax breaks in Illinois and Ohio, a dogcatcher in Lincoln, Neb., and jails and schools elsewhere around the country.

Complete article at: http://www.wvgazette.com/News/200811200864
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Post by Aaron Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:31 pm

Seems the settlement was nothing more then another form of government taxiation, huh Frank.

And all for a completely voluntary choice made by consumers.
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Post by bmd Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:33 pm

Money makes people greedy. I never said otherwise.

Ya' know how you can show them? Don't buy tobacco products and none of your money will go to the tobacco fund to be misused. You'll also live a bit longer, and enjoy your health a bit more. People might even enjoy being around you a bit more (anything is possible, Sam). That'll show them.
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Post by Aaron Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:46 pm

If the government believes that tobacco is a dangerous product, then they should ban it, not try and tax it out of existance.

At what point is enough enough?

Altogether then about 82% of the $3.73 the consumer pays for the pack of cigarettes ends up flowing down in taxes or other payments to the government.

source
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Post by bmd Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:51 pm

Aaron wrote:If the government believes that tobacco is a dangerous product, then they should ban it, not try and tax it out of existance.

At what point is enough enough?

Altogether then about 82% of the $3.73 the consumer pays for the pack of cigarettes ends up flowing down in taxes or other payments to the government.

source

And prohibition has such a good track record, right Clyde?
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Post by Aaron Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:41 pm

So you're fine with a product having an 82% tax rate Willie?
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Post by bmd Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:17 pm

Aaron wrote:So you're fine with a product having an 82% tax rate Willie?

Yup. Particularly when that 82% is STILL too small to pay for the damage tobacco inflicts upon society.
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Post by Aaron Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:33 pm

Then ban the product. It's that simple.
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Post by bmd Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:53 pm

Please refer to my post at 0951 PST
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Post by Aaron Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:58 pm

That's a cowards way of saying you want to keep getting the taxes Willie. You're not fooling anyone.

If it does as much damage as claimed, then tobacco should be banned, PERIOD.
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Post by bmd Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:13 pm

Clyde,

I don't get the taxes; we all get the taxes, which help to defray the enormous amount of money spent to mitigate the damage done by tobacco. In a perfect world, I would agree that tobacco is damaging enough to be banned. But, here's a news-flash for ya', the world ain't perfect. All a prohibition against tobacco products would accomplish would be to set up a situation similar to that which existed during the early twentieth century "Noble Experiments" in various countries.

Nothing cowardly about it, just realistic.
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Post by ziggy Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:42 pm

Look at how successful the other war on drugs has been.

So bring it on.
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Post by Aaron Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:22 pm

So acceptance with unfair taxiation is the answer?

So what about McDonalds? When are they moving into the 82% tax bracket because obesity causes as much, if not more damage then smoking does.

And what about caffine? It's a 'drug'. When is coffee, soda and tea going into the 82% tax bracket?
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Post by SamCogar Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:25 pm

bmd wrote:
Aaron wrote:So you're fine with a product having an 82% tax rate Willie?

Yup. Particularly when that 82% is STILL too small to pay for the damage tobacco inflicts upon society.

HORSESHIT

If tobacco was inflicting all that damage upon society then the States would be using all that settlement money to pay for that damage.

But they are not, as the article above states.

Hell, they ain't using a penny of it to pay for any damage tobacco is causing ....... because they don't know and/or can't prove that tobacco is the cause.

That tobacco bullshit is nothing more than a "cash cow"extortation of the tobacco users.

bmd, just how many medical doctors, health care specialists, intelligent scientists and researchers working in medical related fields ....... had quit smoking and were railing about the dangers of cigarettes before the Great Smokeout was launched?

Not a damn one of them, ..... was there bmd.

They probably told any of their patients who were smokers and were suffering from asthma, broncitis, etc., etc. ..... to lay off the cigarettes because they would irritate their medical problem.

Did Doctors and health care providers query all their patients as to whether or not they smoked cigarettes or had ever smoked cigarettes ...... before smoking became non-PC.

HELL NO they didn't, .... bmd.

GEEZUS, bout everyone of them provided ashtrays in their "waiting rooms" for the convience of the smokers.

GEEEEEEZUUUUS, there were very few restrictions against smoking in hospitals except where/when oxygen was being used.

bmd, remember those temporary signs they would paste on a patient's door stating ......

NO SMOKING
Oxygen in use


NAH, bmd, you are probably too young to remember that ........ and too young to know any better than to drink the "No Smoking Kool Aid" they have been feeding everyone for the past 20+ years.

Betchya can't do it, Sam. 197570 Betchya can't do it, Sam. 33948 Betchya can't do it, Sam. 49761 Betchya can't do it, Sam. 33948 Betchya can't do it, Sam. 197570


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Post by SamCogar Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:34 pm

Aaron wrote:That's a cowards way of saying you want to keep getting the taxes Willie. You're not fooling anyone.

If it does as much damage as claimed, then tobacco should be banned, PERIOD.

Cocaine, heroin, meth, etc. ....... are all banned ........ and they are not responsible for as much damage as tobacco is blamed for.

Aaron, bmd has drank too much of that "No Smoking Kool Aid".

Betchya can't do it, Sam. 33948

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Post by bmd Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:24 pm

Sam,

"Denial" ain't just a river in Egypt. You make about as much sense when it comes to tobacco as creationists make when it comes to science.


Last edited by bmd on Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by bmd Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:46 pm

Clyde wrote:So acceptance with unfair taxiation is the answer?

Clyde,

What's unfair about taxing a product to mitigate some of the costs it imposes upon society?

Clyde wrote:So what about McDonalds? When are they moving into the 82% tax bracket because obesity causes as much, if not more damage then smoking does.

The food at McDonalds, in and of itself, is not the problem; it's lazy numbskulls eating way too much fast food. A Big Mac (or a DoubleDouble at In-and-Out Burger) is fine, as long as it is eaten as part of a balanced diet. Similarly, a glass of wine or two every day is beneficial. BUT, too much of a good thing...

Clyde wrote:And what about caffine[sic]? It's a 'drug'. When is[sic] coffee, soda and tea going into the 82% tax bracket?

Caffeine is indeed a drug. So is aspirin. Neither are harmful in moderation. The same cannot same said for tobacco.
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Post by Aaron Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:45 am

Your reasoning shows your ignorance Willie.
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Post by bmd Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:21 am

Clyde wrote:Your reasoning shows your ignorance Willie.

Oh, that hurt.

How shall I continue????

(sniff, sniff, weep, weep)
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Post by Aaron Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:25 am

I'd venture to say with your head up your ass as that's how you were when you came here.
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Post by SamCogar Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:06 pm

bmd wrote:Sam,

"Denial" ain't just a river in Egypt. You make about as much sense when it comes to tobacco as creationists make when it comes to science.

That was a really piss-poor "cop-out", bmd.

But not surprising though, that was but a typical reply from you whenever you are unable to refute any statements or claims by another poster.

bmd, it must give you an awful sick feeling when you can't explain or defend those things that you claim to believe in.

Betchya can't do it, Sam. 197570 Betchya can't do it, Sam. 197570 Betchya can't do it, Sam. 197570 Betchya can't do it, Sam. 197570


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Post by bmd Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:34 pm

SamCogar wrote:
bmd wrote:Sam,

"Denial" ain't just a river in Egypt. You make about as much sense when it comes to tobacco as creationists make when it comes to science.

That was a really piss-poor "cop-out", bmd.

But not surprising though, that was but a typical reply from you whenever you are unable to refute any statements or claims by another poster.

bmd, it must give you an awful sick feeling when you can't explain or defend those things that you claim to believe in.

Inhaling smoke is bad for your health. It's as simple as that, Sammy.
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