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Governors Against State Bailouts

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Post by Stephanie Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:10 pm

I'd love to shake their hands. Three cheers for Governor Perry (TX) and Governor Sanford (SC)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122818170073571049.html

Hard to believe, but not everyone in politics wants a free lunch.

By RICK PERRY and MARK SANFORD

As governors and citizens, we've grown increasingly concerned over the past weeks as Washington has thrown bailout after bailout at the national economy with little to show for it.

In the process, the federal government is not only burying future generations under mountains of debt. It is also taking our country in a very dangerous direction -- toward a "bailout mentality" where we look to government rather than ourselves for solutions. We're asking other governors from both sides of the political aisle to join with us in opposing further federal bailout intervention for three reasons.

First, we're crossing the Rubicon with regard to debt.

One fact that's been continually glossed over in the bailout debate is that Washington doesn't have money in hand for any of these proposals. Every penny would be borrowed. Estimates for what the government is willing to spend on bailouts and stimulus efforts for this year reach as much as $7.7 trillion according to Bloomberg.com -- a full half of the United States' yearly economic output.

With all the zeroes in the numbers, it's no wonder Washington politicians have lost track.

That trillion-dollar figure is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to checks written by the federal government that it can't cash. Former U.S. Comptroller General David Walker puts our nation's total debt and unpaid promises, like Social Security, at roughly $52 trillion -- an invisible mortgage of $450,000 on every American household. Borrowing money to "solve" a problem created by too much debt seems odd. And as fiscally conservative Republicans, we take no pleasure in pointing out that many in our own party have been just as complicit in running up the tab as those on the political left.

Second, the bailout mentality threatens Americans' sense of personal responsibility.

In a free-market system, competition and one's own personal stake motivate people to do their best. In this process, the winners create wealth, jobs and new investment, while others go back to the drawing board better prepared to try again.

To an unprecedented degree, government is currently picking winners and losers in the private marketplace, and throwing good money after bad. A prudent investor takes money from low-yield investments and puts them in those that yield better returns. Recent government intervention is doing the opposite -- taking capital generated from productive activities and throwing it at enterprises that in many cases need to reorganize their business model.

Take for example the proposed Big Three auto-maker bailout. We think it's very telling that each of the three CEO's flew on their own private jets to Washington to ask for a taxpayer handout. No amount of taxpayer largess could fix a business culture so fundamentally flawed.

Third, we'd ask the federal government to stop believing it has all the answers.

Our Founding Fathers were clear and deliberate in setting up a system whereby the federal government would only step in for that which states cannot do themselves. An expansionist federal government of the last century has moved us light-years away from that model, but it doesn't mean that Congress can't learn from states that are coming up with solutions that work.

In Texas and South Carolina, we've focused on improving "soil conditions" for businesses by cutting taxes, reforming our legal system and our workers' compensation system. We'd humbly suggest that Congress take a page from those playbooks by focusing on targeted tax relief paid for by cutting spending, not by borrowing.

In the rush to do "something" to help, federal leaders would be wise to take a line from the Hippocratic Oath, and pledge to do no (more) harm to our country's finances. We can weather this storm if we commit to fiscal prudence and hold true to the values of individual freedom and responsibility that made our nation great.

Mr. Perry, a Republican, is the governor of Texas. Mr. Sanford, a Republican, is the governor of South Carolina.
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Post by sodbuster Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:35 pm

Well Steph I guess you didnt see my post earlier today where Perry is howling for more federal money for Texas to clean up after the hurricane?

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Post by Stephanie Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:54 pm

Why shouldn't Texas receive federal disaster funds to cope with damage from hurricanes? Don't Texans pay taxes for that sort of thing too? When Hurricane Katrina caused so much devastation to New Orleans and other areas of Louisianna and Mississippi and beyond, wasn't it Texas who welcomed the refugees with open arms?

Coast to coast states receive disaster relief for storms, fires, floods...you name it. Perry isn't asking the federal government to print more money or sell more dollars to China in order to add police officers or give teachers another pay raise. He's asking for the federal government to do for Texas what it has done for California and Florida time and time and time again.
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Post by sodbuster Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:46 am

http://www.lynnsamuels.com/

Well Steph did you know that Texas alone will get $11 billion for just this one storm?

And the taxpayers just got thru shelling out several billion for the last one?

Now these folks continue to build where they know a hurricane is bound to hit sooner or later.

But these governors get on their hi-horse because Ford asks for a $9 billion loan guarantee?

Where is the equity in that? Something is wrong with this pic if you ask me.

Now you know from my past posts I am not opposed to helping out hurricane victims.

But I'm just sayin'.

Good for the goose, good for the gander.

Ford has said they very well might not even need to spend the 9 billion, just have it available as a line of credit if needed.

How many jobs are at stake at Ford?

Which is the best deal for us taxpayers?

See what I mean?

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Post by Stephanie Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:12 am

Sherm,

I have looked through the Lynn Samuels site. I can find nothing indicating there, or anywhere else on the web, that Texas will get $11 billion dollars in aid as a result of that one storm. I have seen the Lt. Governor and others quoted as saying it will take over $11 billion to recover from the storms that hit this year, but the figures I have found regarding aid that has been awarded are all only a small fraction of that.

So perhaps you'll provide an actual link to what you're talking about, instead of just pointing me in the direction of Lynn Samuel's blog. I am not fishing through there any longer or ever again, for that matter.

Texans and the state of Texas are among the most deserving of federal disaster aid. When disaster struck their neighbors 3 years ago, nobody stood up to the plate like Texas, and Texans continue to shoulder much of the burden of the refugees of Hurrican Katrina.

The clean up of hazardous wastes and government lands is a cost the federal government should incur, not the state of Texas and not the citizens of Texas alone. The clean up and repair and rebuilding of these areas will provide jobs and pump money into the economy.

Perhaps with a bit of oversight, the people collecting paychecks to perform these duties will actually put in a day's work for a day's pay. The same certainly cannot be said about the thousands of UAW members who sit in halls playing cards and watching television.

The hurricanes that struck Texas this year causing so much damage were not the result of something the citizens of Texas did. Texans can no more control the weather than West Virginians. The Big 3 automakers and the UAW, on the other hand, brought much of their troubles upon themselves.

They can't or won't build cars Americans want to drive. They have put off improving energy efficiancy, paid executives lavish salaries, and spent billions and billions of dollars paying people to do absolutely nothing. They dug their hole, not the American taxpayers. Let them dig themselves out of it.
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Post by sodbuster Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:36 am

Well Steph she continuously adds new stuff to her website.

So you just have to scroll down the page.

It is further down the list now since she has added more stuff but I just checked and it is still there.

The headline is 30 miles of debris piled up in Texas because of FEMA or something like that.

I cant figure how to do a direct link to it or I would have done so.

But I did copy the part about the $11 billion and will paste below.

Please note that I said the total will be $11 bill. (they have only received 1 billion so far according to the article and that's what Perry was bitchin' about).

"...FEMA pointed out that more than $1 billion in federal and state aid already has gone to Texas in disaster assistance since Ike, with about one-third of that in grants for temporary housing rent and another third in low-interest loans for renters, homeowners and businesses. The state has estimated the total pricetag at $11 billion."

hope this helps.

Also remember I dont object to Perry getting his, I just pointed out the hypocrisy of him getting on his hi-horse over Ford asking for a loan when he is planning to get far more as a handout not to be paid back.

But this is not the first storm to hit the coast and wont be the last.

So they should plan better where to build homes and businesses.

(If you ask me. Which nobody did.)

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Post by ohio county Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:40 am

Should the government take action to block building in storm-prone areas?
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Post by Aaron Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:50 am

Personally, I think the federal government being in the disaster relief business is a waste and should be left up to the state levels. I see no reason my tax dollars should go to rebuild a home on Galveston Island, in lower Mississippi or Alabama or in the 9th ward.

IMHO, individuals know the potential dangers when they build in those areas and they shouldn't expect West Virginian's to bail them out any more then North Dakotan’s should expect Louisianan’s to rescue them from a blizzard.

As a country, we started in the 30’s allowing the federal government to take on responsibilities that are constitutionally granted to the states and that mentality is the reason the United States in the condition it is.

We need to get back to smaller government and individual responsibility and stop expecting big brother to bail us out every time we stub our toe and that goes for all aspects of life.

My 2 cents.
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Post by sodbuster Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:56 am

ohio county wrote:Should the government take action to block building in storm-prone areas?

Well I have thought about that before and have mixed feelings about it.

Maybe they could just require insurance like the state requires insurance on your car.

But unless they do something like that Perry's request will almost surely be repeated while hopefully the Ford loan guarantee wont ever be used and if it is used will probably be paid back.

So his hi-horse antics are just more political grandstanding imo.

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Post by Stephanie Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:57 am

"...FEMA pointed out that more than $1 billion in federal and state aid already has gone to Texas in disaster assistance since Ike, with about one-third of that in grants for temporary housing rent and another third in low-interest loans for renters, homeowners and businesses. The state has estimated the total pricetag at $11 billion."

OK.......now show me where that says the state of Texas is getting $11 billion dollars for all the storms combined, much less a single storm.
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Post by Aaron Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:02 am

As for the Big 3, I personally think the government should do for them what they did for AMC, Edsel, Studebaker and other car companies seen in this piece.
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Post by Stephanie Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:08 am

Jimmy,

I am opposed to the federal government repeatedly paying for losses in disaster prone areas. I've made my feelings quite clear on this when discussing rebuilding a city below sea level. It's irresponsible and sometimes has deadly consequences.
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Post by Aaron Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:18 am

ohio county wrote:Should the government take action to block building in storm-prone areas?

I don't know if the federal government should block building but they should refuse to insure when All State or Prudential won't and they should quit rebuilding on the same property over and over again.

If someone wants to build, let them do so at their own risk.

That would be 4 cents worth thus far.
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Post by ohio county Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:32 am

I agree. I don't like to tell private land owners what they can and cannot do. But neither can I see compensating them for storms we know are coming.

By the same token, I cannot see compensating Ford Motor Company for their failure to negotiate labor agreements they can live with. And if the bailout comes (please write this down), the conditions will be so onerous it will be much worse for Ford and GM and Chrysler to take the money. The nanny government will force them to build cars that no one will want to buy. If they take the money they will be back again and again and again.
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Post by Aaron Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:35 am

But people will buy the cars Jimmy. I saw on the news night before last where some Congressman was proposing a $10,000 tax credit for buying "American cars".

If it passes, I want to use mine on a new Camry.
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Post by sodbuster Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:41 am

I remember Pres. Nixon did that.

Not for 10,000 of course, I forget how much.

But it didnt apply to Toyotas.

Just American companies.

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Post by ohio county Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:50 am

My wife talked about buying a new car and asked me what I thought. I told her a Camry would be good for her. I swore I'd never drive a Japanese car. But my daughter wanted one and so I bought her a Toyota. She loved it. So I bought a five year old Corolla. I love it. It is just shy of 100,000 miles but runs like a top and looks new.
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Post by Stephanie Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:59 am

My MIL's Toyota Corolla has over 300k miles on it and still runs great. She's had it for all of the ten years I've known her. She bought it used and now the body needs some work because it's hit two deer and she ran it off the road when she hit a patch of ice once. It will be like that Mercedes I had....the body will rot away and the engine will keep on truckin', I suspect.
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Post by sodbuster Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:13 pm

Well I drive an 86 S-10 pickup.

It has 349,000 miles.

It is real rough and banged up but still runs good.

Only chevy I ever owned.

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Post by Stephanie Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:17 pm

My first car was a '71 Chevy Impala. That car was 11 years old when I got it but man it could haul butt. I really liked that car.
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Post by Aaron Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:06 pm

sodbuster wrote:
But it didnt apply to Toyotas.


But it should apply today, right Sherman.

Engineering & Manufacturing Plants
In 13 locations across North America, more than 36,000 team members are producing* over 1.3 million vehicles, more than 1.5 million engines, and nearly 400,000 automatic transmissions per year. In fact, 11 Toyota and Lexus models are built in North America with parts purchased from hundreds of North American supplier locations.

Our annual U.S. spending on parts, goods and services with suppliers totals more than $28 billion** and counting, as Toyota continues to grow and build more vehicles, engines and transmissions in North America.


*Toyota vehicles and components are built using U.S. and globally sourced parts.

**Parts, materials and components (FY ending 3/08). Goods and services (CY 2007).

All data as of December 2007 except where noted.


Toyata today
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Post by sodbuster Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:04 pm

Also I wonder if the SC Governor is against state government providing corporate welfare or just the national gvt?

And is it just as bad in SC as in Michigan?

Because as I understand SC provided a bunch of taxpayer assistance to BMW.

And that Senator Shelby from Alabama I wonder if he objected to all the taxpayer money Alabama gave to Mercedes?

Seems like a lot of these southern non-union states are heavily invested in foreign cars and if the American companies go under their states will benefit.

So they get on their hi-horse and preach about free mkt., etc but if it's good for the goose shouldnt it be good for the gander?

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Post by Stephanie Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:58 pm

It is up to the people of South Carolina to decide if they want to provide state assistance to BMW. Did South Carolina dig itself into debt helping BMW? How many jobs were at stake? What kind of assistnce was it? Was it actual cash assistance, or was it in the form of tax relief? Many state & local governments provide all kinds of tax breaks to entice and retain businesses. The businesses provide jobs to citizens and keep the economy going. It's a win/win situation.
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Post by sodbuster Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:36 pm

"...The businesses provide jobs to citizens and keep the economy going. It's a win/win situation."

Well that's pretty much the way I look at the loans for the big three.

Except they would be paying the money back to the taxpayers.

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Post by Stephanie Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:48 pm

Oh bullshit.

The Big 3 have had decades to run themselves into the ground. Besides, what's being talked about isn't tax breaks and incentives to lure industry or to keep industry from leaving a state or even the nation. What they are asking for is the US Congress to drive this nation further into debt with a $34 billion Hail Mary.

These companies aren't profitable. They lack innovation. Americans don't want to buy what they're selling.
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