Not that it will change anyones mind

And that's where you are wrong. Johnson, Kissinger and Nixon all answered to Congress and could have been stopped at any time AND all were acting within the scope and confines of their office and the law.

It was still terrorism.

The German Holocaust against Jews was done by people acting within the scope and confines of their office and the law, too. That didn't and doesn't keep it from being terrorism by certain people against other people.

Stephanie wrote:It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Ayers wasn't some kind of hero in your mind, bm.

Bill Ayers teaching university students doesn't scare me nearly as much as John Yoo doing so.

Yoo is a scary guy. Perhaps I should do a thorough investigation of the professors at Kate's college of choice.

Stephanie wrote:Yoo is a scary guy.

And I'd bet a couple beers that Bill Ayers would agree with you on that.

Stephanie wrote:Yoo is a scary guy. Perhaps I should do a thorough investigation of the professors at Kate's college of choice.

I would worry more about her peers than her professors. The scariest thing an incoming college student can do is to get involved with a fraternity or sorority. Alcohol poisoning is far more common than almost any college administrator will let on; and most of that involves "greek" organizations.

On the other hand, ya' gotta' cut the apron strings sometime.

ziggy wrote:

And that's where you are wrong. Johnson, Kissinger and Nixon all answered to Congress and could have been stopped at any time AND all were acting within the scope and confines of their office and the law.

It was still terrorism.

The German Holocaust against Jews was done by people acting within the scope and confines of their office and the law, too. That didn't and doesn't keep it from being terrorism by certain people against other people.

It wouldn't have been terrorism had Germany and Hitler won the war as the victors get to write history.

Either way, what Johnson and Nixon and Kessinger did in southeast Asia was still terrorism.

In your opinion of course.

That is a good point Aaron about the victors writing history.

Those who control the media can generally control public opinion.

A good example is the way that Illinois governor has been demonized.

I have even seen a presumption of guilt right here on this forum.

They know the guy is guilty but what is he guilty of?

(not that I dont think he is guilty too.)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081212/ap_on_re_us/illinois_governor

"His ability to provide effective leadership has been eliminated and the state government is paralyzed."

Even if he is innocent, don't you think the above quote is true? Don't you believe it would be in the best interests of Illinois and her citizens for Blago to resign?

Well Steph my intent was not to argue his guilt or innocence.

Just to provide an example how effective propoganda can be.

Aaron wrote:

ziggy wrote:
It is not to "excuse away Ayers" to point out that Johnson and Kessinger and Nixon were far and away bigger and more accomplished terrorists than Ayers ever dreamed of being.

And that's where you are wrong. Johnson, Kissinger and Nixon all answered to Congress and could have been stopped at any time AND all were acting within the scope and confines of their office and the law.

Bill Ayers was a criminal that still should be sentanced to jail.

In your opinion of course.

ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:

ziggy wrote:
It is not to "excuse away Ayers" to point out that Johnson and Kessinger and Nixon were far and away bigger and more accomplished terrorists than Ayers ever dreamed of being.

And that's where you are wrong. Johnson, Kissinger and Nixon all answered to Congress and could have been stopped at any time AND all were acting within the scope and confines of their office and the law.

Bill Ayers was a criminal that still should be sentanced to jail.

In your opinion of course.

No, he broke the law and committed acts that our US government recognizes as acts of terrorism as they did in both Oklahoma City bombings and the 93 World Trade Towers bombings.

Nixon, Johnson and Kissinger acts were universally recognized as acts of war and as such are not acts of terrorism.

Those sticky facts.

I watched a very interesting interview yesterday with a defense lawyer and about the only charge Blagojevich could be charged with is if he actually solicited a bribe from a specific individual. Talking about selling the seat doesn't suffice as a crime.

Saying that, I don't think anything about this guy is propaganda Sod. The guys pond scum.

Propaganda does not have to be false.

Then where is the propaganda regarding Rod Blagojevich? Either on here or in the news?

"Talking about selling the seat doesn't suffice as a crime."

I am glad you posted that point Aaron.

I started to do that yesterday, but said nah, no use in that.

Certain ones on here still have not grasped the fact that you need to be able to prove a specific crime to get a conviction.

Not just prove they are a creep or a-hole.

Maybe they have more than they have publicized .

Or maybe they are just releasing all this to smoke other people out.

Hard to tell what the strategy is.

I'm not sure if they have more or if they just wanted to stop him from doing what he very much intended to do, which was sell the seat.

The guy should be removed from office.

Do you really think they've released all of their evidence to the press?

They had his office bugged. They had taps on his phones.

I don't see this as propaganda. I see this as the news media doing what they always do. They're selling newspapers and improving ratings with the most salacious story of the day. A US Governor auctioning off the US Senate seat recently vacated by the President-elect.

In the most corrupt city in the country no less.

Yes, it's newsworthy. But unless he's actually solicited a bribe from a specific individual, this won't stick legally.

Politically, he's done but he's either too stupid or too ego driven to know it. But then he was done before this leaked. He wasn't going to obtain higher office as Chicagoans thought about as much of him as Americans do our Congress.

His pre-sale approval rating was 13%. I can't imagine what it is now.

The really bad thing is that it is the citizens of Illinois that are suffering the most as his unwillingness to at least step aside is the state.

I'm confident he will be impeached, or resign, pdq. This guy is toast.

I'm also reasonably certain they have more on this guy than just talking about selling that seat, Aaron. This guy going after him is too good to have him arrested before he had enough evidence to nail his hide.

I agree for the most part Stephanie. US attorney's normally don't arrest unless they have a pretty solid case as they don't want to suffer the embarrassment.

The only skepticism I have here is that maybe someone up the ladder considered the political ramifications and said move so as to prevent Blagojevich from actually selling the seat with an appointment.

I could see a conservative high up doing just that to prevent either Valerie Jarret or Jesse Jackson, Jr. from getting the seat.

who would you like to see appointed Aaron?

I like Jesse Jr. better than his old man.

Obama's choice has taken herself out of it.

I doubt Blago will appoint anybody right away in any event.

As long as he is in office he still has a bargaining chip if he plays his cards right, so he probably would not do anything controversial right now.

He's not going to appoint anyone and if he somehow did, the Senate could refuse to set the appointee.

As for who, as I know nothing about Chicago politics (other then they are corrupt) I have no idea.

Aaron wrote:Nixon, Johnson and Kissinger acts were universally recognized as acts of war and as such are not acts of terrorism.

How universally? Do you think that the however many dead Vietnamese and other southeast Asians would have agreed with you on that? Do you think that the southeast Asian survivors of the Vitenam War would agree with you on that?