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Franken stealing the election

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sodbuster
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Franken stealing the election Empty Franken stealing the election

Post by Ich bin Ala-awkbarph Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:07 pm

Here's an example of a vote they say is clearly for Franken: http://senaterecount.startribune.com/ballots/index.php?review_date=2008-12-17&index=35


Last edited by Armon Ayers on Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by ziggy Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:13 pm

Who is "they"?

And who does Coleman say it's clearly for?
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Post by Ich bin Ala-awkbarph Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:47 pm

ziggy wrote:Who is "they"?

And who does Coleman say it's clearly for?

The election board. How is it that only votes cast for Franken are questioned and counted?
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Post by ziggy Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:05 am

Armon Ayers wrote:
ziggy wrote:Who is "they"?

And who does Coleman say it's clearly for?

The election board. How is it that only votes cast for Franken are questioned and counted?

How do we know that it "only" happens that way? Were there no questioned ballots that were counted for Coleman? How do we know?

You showed us one single ballot that should have been counted as either "spoiled" or "double-voted"- and either way not counted for that Senatorial race. The intent of the voter is not at all clearly discernable.

Typically, your political anecdotes lack of lot of being confirmable. Why should we take this one any more seriously than your other such political drivels?
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Post by sodbuster Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:51 am

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/12/franken_gets_big_win_at_canvas.php

Well it's not over till it's over, but it is looking better for Franken.

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Post by Keli Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:11 am

(MN) Canvassing board moves forward as potential legal roadblocks develop. (Full Update, 4 Articles)
Minneapolis-St.Paul NBC Channel 11 ^ | December 18, 2008-1:45 a.m. | Scott Goldberg


The state canvassing board finished up its second day of sorting through challenged ballots Wednesday and said it hoped to be done with all challenges in the U.S. Senate race by the end of the week. But Secretary of State Mark Ritchie said the board would not certify a winner Friday, and there were new signs that court challenges lie ahead and could push Minnesota's process of selecting a Senator into 2009.

(LEGAL ISSUE 1) One issue that could end up in court involves "duplicate" ballots -- ballots filled in on Election Day if there's something wrong with a voter's original ballot. For example, if a scanning machine rejects a voter's original ballot, election judges would help voters fill out a duplicate ballot to make sure the voter's votes are counted. On Wednesday, Norm Coleman's lawyers said they believe, in some cases, both duplicate and original ballots were counted during the recount. "There may be five, six, even as many as 12 or 14 (duplicate) votes" in a given precinct, said Coleman attorney Tony Trimble. But lawyers for Al Franken said Coleman "invented" the issue of duplicate ballots after he started to worry that Franken is winning the recount. "They have now invented a theory by which they can try to discredit the work of the recount and the work of this canvassing board," said Franken attorney Mark Elias. The five members of the canvassing did not come to a conclusion on how they would handle duplicate ballots.

(LEGAL ISSUE 2) The second issue addressed Wednesday that could lead to a lawsuit involves absentee ballots. Earlier in the day, the Minnesota Supreme Court heard arguments from both campaigns after Coleman filed a petition to block the counting of absentee ballots that were improperly rejected on Election Day. Coleman lawyer Roger Magnuson, who represented George W. Bush in 2000, argued Minnesota would turn into Florida if the court let those ballots be counted as part of the canvass. Magnuson called it an "improvised solution" that would create the kind of confusion he saw in 2000. A Supreme Court ruling on the absentee ballots could come as soon as Thursday. A lawsuit by whichever campaign is not happy with the ruling could come soon after that.

By the end of the day Wednesday, the canvassing board finished sorting through Franken's entire stack of challenged recount ballots. There were 420 ballots in that pile after Franken withdrew several challenges.(1)

On Thursday, the panel will begin plowing through Coleman's estimated 1,000 challenges. Ritchie said he hoped the Coleman campaign would follow Franken's lead and eliminate challenges the board will see as frivolous.

(1) Latest available data is 415 Franken challenged ballots. CB ruled 234 for Coleman, 64 for Franken, 117 neither candidate. After Day 1 Coleman led by 264 votes. After Day 2, with the CB completing their review of Franken’s challenged ballots, Coleman's lead increased to 358.
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Post by Ich bin Ala-awkbarph Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:31 pm

FRANKEN HATCHES A HOOEY

Can we count them with our nose?
Can we count them with our toes?
Should we count them with a band?
Should we count them all by hand?
If I do not like the count,
I will simply throw them out!
I will not let this vote count stand.
I do not like them, Al Franken I am!

I’m really ticked; I’m in a snit!
You have not heard the last of it!
We cannot, cannot count enough!
We must not stop, we must be tough!
I’ll count, recount, and count some more!
You’ll grow to hate this little chore.
But I will not, cannot let this stand.
I do not like it, Al Franken I am!

How shall we count this ballot box?
Let’s count it standing in our socks!
Shall we count this one in a tree?
And who shall count it, you or me?
I’ll count the ballots one by one
Count them ‘til they say I’ve won!
I do not want this vote to stand!
I do not like it, Al Franken I am!

Dr. al-Seuss
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Post by Ich bin Ala-awkbarph Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:53 pm

Franken stealing the election Franken4
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Post by sodbuster Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:28 pm

Well according to the local paper Franken has moved ahead for the first time.

And they have ruled that the 1500 absentee ballots the republicans were wanting thrown out will be counted.

So that should be good for Franken.

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Post by Aaron Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:43 pm

IMO, Minnesotaians should be demanding a run off election.

Before the five-member canvassing board began reviewing challenges Friday, it rejected a request from the Coleman campaign to disqualify hundreds of ballots that the campaign argued were duplicates and had been counted twice.

G. Barry Anderson, a Supreme Court justice serving on the board, said the issue was not the board's to decide.

"While I think there is a serious issue here, the location, extent and remedy lie elsewhere," Anderson said

source
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Post by ziggy Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:33 pm

IMO, Minnesotaians should be demanding a run off election.

Why? They have had one election, and haven't even counted all the votes from it yet.
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Post by Aaron Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:15 pm

Because.
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Post by sodbuster Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:22 pm

Well I think they have to follow the law.

And their law does not call for a runoff.

Whoever gets the most votes wins.

Just like there was no runoff in Fl when they quit counting and gave it to Bush.

At least here they are trying to count all the ballots.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/senate/36438459.html?elr=KArks8c7PaP3E77K_3c::D3aDhUec7PaP3E77K_0c::D3aDhUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiU

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Post by SamCogar Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:06 am

sodbuster wrote:Well I think they have to follow the law.

And their law does not call for a runoff.

Whoever gets the most votes wins.

Just like there was no runoff in Fl when they quit counting and gave it to Bush.

Can a State pass a Law that affects the selection of a National Candidate?

.

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Post by sodbuster Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:20 am

Yes.

The states set the rules and they are not uniform from state to state.

Here are some more examples of challenged ballots.

You be the judge...

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2008/11/19_challenged_ballots/

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Post by Aaron Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:28 am

sodbuster wrote:Well I think they have to follow the law.

And their law does not call for a runoff.

The state sets the law thus, if they so chose, they could convene the legislature, introduce a measure for a run off election, pass it and have a the election in no time and put an end to all this controversy.

sodbuster wrote:Whoever gets the most votes wins.

Hopefully

sodbuster wrote:Just like there was no runoff in Fl when they quit counting and gave it to Bush.

Bush won. It's time to move on.

sodbuster wrote:At least here they are trying to count all the ballots.

Many of them twice. One of Minnesota's own supreme court justices' said as much.

Before the five-member canvassing board began reviewing challenges Friday, it rejected a request from the Coleman campaign to disqualify hundreds of ballots that the campaign argued were duplicates and had been counted twice.

G. Barry Anderson, a Supreme Court justice serving on the board, said the issue was not the board's to decide.

"While I think there is a serious issue here, the location, extent and remedy lie elsewhere," Anderson said
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Post by sodbuster Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:34 am

Well Aaron I dont think they could change the rules after the ballots have been cast.

That would be what is called ex post facto.

That is prohibited in the Constitution, I believe.

Also here is some more interesting info on the case at hand.

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Post by ohio county Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:11 pm

That is interesting.
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Post by ziggy Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:15 pm

Can a State pass a Law that affects the selection of a National Candidate?

Yep. Fifty different sates have 50 different sets of laws- with no two just alike- about selection of all candidates- local, state and national.

Some state don't allow runoff elections at all. Others virtually require it under any of several scenarios.
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