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Muslim inmate sues to get halal meat

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Aaron
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Post by Keli Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:30 am

A Connecticut prison inmate has sued the state, claiming that his religious freedom as a Muslim has been violated by the lack of halal meat.
http://www.courant.com/news/local/hc-prisoner1231.artdec31,0,4873949.story

Ricardo Collins filed the lawsuit in U.S. District Court on Dec. 23, The Hartford Courant reported.

"I am a American Muslim and I am being denied the halal meat for the two Islamic feast days," Collins said in his complaint. "The halal meat for the two feasts have great 'spiritual meaning' to the Muslim community all over the world."

The named defendants include Corrections Commissioner Theresa Lantz and other officials, including chaplains at the Corrigan-Radgowski correctional facility in Uncasville.

Collins was sentenced to 70 years after he was convicted of killing a man in Bridgeport in 2002. He recently won an appeal granting him a new trial.

Brian Garnett, a spokesman for the prison system, said that it meets the requirements set down by a court decision that ruled that New Jersey prisons were not required to serve halal meat, which has been slaughtered according to religious rules.


Maybe if Muslims would not kill people, they could eat halal meat until it comes out their noses...
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Post by bmd Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:48 am

Maybe if Muslims would not kill people...

Careful, Terry. Aaron is gonna' get all over you if you don't say "some Muslims" or "a tiny percentage of Muslims."

Or, that's right. Such niceties only apply to Christians (or is it just wacko Christians?).
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Post by Aaron Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:40 am

I'm glad I could bring you and Keli together.

Enjoy

Very Happy
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Post by bmd Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:51 am

So, Aaron. Do such niceties only apply to Christians?
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Post by Aaron Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:08 am

How is someone exercising their constitutional right a nicety?
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Post by TerryRC Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:08 am

How is someone exercising their constitutional right a nicety?

A jew would get a kosher meal in a hot minute.

Why the fuss over this?

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Post by Stephanie Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:07 am

In America Jews have lots of power and influential friends. Muslims have none.
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Post by bmd Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:08 am

Stephanie wrote:In America Jews have lots of power and influential friends. Muslims have none.

Is that why Aaron, TerryH, and SheikBen are afraid to cross them (Jews)? Or, is it just plain old vanilla bigotry against Muslims?
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Post by Keli Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:59 am

Stephanie wrote:In America Jews have lots of power and influential friends. Muslims have none.

His lawyers are probably Jewish. And, the entrepreneur who develops the market to produce and supply halal meat to the prison will probably also be Jewish--if not, then they both the lawyer and meat distributor will surely be Christian.
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Post by TerryRC Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:38 am

if not, then they both the lawyer and meat distributor will surely be Christian.

So will most of the people mocking this.

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Post by Keli Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:16 am

TerryRC wrote:if not, then they both the lawyer and meat distributor will surely be Christian.

So will most of the people mocking this.

If this jerk had been in an Islamic country, he would already have had a haircut to the nape of his neck, be under a heap of stones or hanging from a bridge--all in the name of Allah.
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Post by TerryRC Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:00 am

If this jerk had been in an Islamic country, he would already have had a haircut to the nape of his neck, be under a heap of stones or hanging from a bridge--all in the name of Allah.

So what.

We aren't an islamic country. Or a christian one, for that matter.


The fact remains that if this was kosher food for a jew, you wouldn't bat an eye.

Surely you see that your stance on this might be considered to be bigoted.

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Post by Aaron Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:32 am

TerryRC wrote:
Or a christian one, for that matter.

The first thing Obama and his family did yesterday was go to church, for the 3rd time this week I believe.

Pastor Rick Warren gave the invocation to start the inauguration.

Obama and Biden both took the oath of office with their left hand on a bible.

Obama quoted scripture in his inauguration address.

Before their lunch, they once again had prayer.

You can think this is not a Christian country if you choose.

That places you in a very small minority

And that is why if this were a Jewish prisoner wanting a kosher meal, this wouldn't be an issue and the Keli’s of the world wouldn’t have a problem with it.
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Post by TerryRC Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:08 am

You can think this is not a Christian country if you choose.

That places you in a very small minority


Are our laws based upon christian morality?

Is there a state religion?

The fact that most americans are christian does not make this a christian nation.

The small minority I'm part of - is it the percentage of people that actually "get it"?

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Post by Aaron Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:13 am

If you say so Terry.
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Post by TerryRC Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:42 am

If you say so Terry.

Nice comeback.

Again... is it your contention that, because most americans are christian, we are a "christian nation"?

Ridiculous.

The majority of americans are also white. Are we a "white nation"?

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Post by Stephanie Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:46 am

Aaron,

I agree with Terry. This is not a Christian nation, no matter how many times the Christians say it is. Not all of the founders were Christian, some were deists. What they did believe in was freedom of religion. The extremism of the Puritans provided a valuable lesson for them, I'm sure.
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Post by Aaron Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:06 am

We've had this discussion before and no matter how much proof is offered, you choose to ignore it. There is no room for you on this subject so why should I take my time to offer you the same evidence I have over and over again, just to see you ignore it.

Had the events yesterday not occurred as I described, I wouldn't have bothered with this thread. As I said, you've got your mind made up and you ain't changing. In a lot of ways, you and TerryH are a lot alike.
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Post by TerryRC Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:19 am

We've had this discussion before and no matter how much proof is offered, you choose to ignore it. There is no room for you on this subject so why should I take my time to offer you the same evidence I have over and over again, just to see you ignore it.

It is you doing the ignoring and attributing that close-mindedness to me. How adolescent of you.

Can you answer either of the following questions?

Is it your contention that, because most americans are christian, we are a "christian nation"?

The majority of americans are also white. Are we a "white nation"?


Pull the other one...

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Post by Aaron Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:49 am

Predominantly, the answer to both questions is yes.

I think part of your problem is that you confuse Christianity with religion and that's your mistake.

Like it or not, this is a Christian nation founded on Christian laws and principals. Even today, ~220 years of assault on religion, 75% of Americans still profess Christian beliefs.

The beauty of our founding fathers is they understood how religion can exploit and that is why they choose to separate church and state.

How it got from a separation to an out right ban on religion just shows that it is not only Christians that exploit and go too far.
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Post by TerryRC Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:22 pm

Like it or not, this is a Christian nation founded on Christian laws and principals. Even today, ~220 years of assault on religion, 75% of Americans still profess Christian beliefs.

Citation, please.

I believe, if you bother to do a little homework, you will find that our laws are rooted in english common law.

Regardless, the fact that congress shall pass no law respecting... hell, you know the rest, puts the lie to the statement that we are a "christian nation".

The fact that the majority of americans are christian does not make us a "christian nation".

You still haven't been able to refute that argument.

Predominantly, the answer to both questions is yes.

If we are a "white nation", why does Bernie Mac keep appearing on my TV?

Where is religion banned, BTW? My kids are allowed to pray in school if they like.

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Post by Aaron Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:22 pm

Why bother doubting me? This is at least the 4th of 5th time I've posted this. I guess you and Ziggy think that if you question me when I state the truth, it will suddenly not be.

Where do you think the origins of Old English law come from?

And the reason Bernie Mac keeps coming on your TV is because you keep turning the station to Fox late at night. That doesn't mean we're a black nation. 74% of Americans are white.

You might want to check the definition of predominately.
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Post by TerryRC Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:12 am

Where do you think the origins of Old English law come from?

The roots of english common law are NOT rooted in christianity, as you imply. Here is a reference for you: Description and History of Common Law.

And the reason Bernie Mac keeps coming on your TV is because you keep turning the station to Fox late at night. That doesn't mean we're a black nation. 74% of Americans are white.

If we are a white nation, why does it have black people in it, you boob? Disingenuous much?

Your reference means jack shit. I know the majority of americans profess some flavor of christianity. That doesn't make america a "christian nation", though. We are also a nation of muslims, jews, rasta boys, mormons agnostics and atheists, just to name a few other non-christian groups.

It is our nation, also.

You might want to check the definition of predominately.

I know enough about the definition to know that it has no relevance to this argument.

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Post by Aaron Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:25 am

Boob? Why do you always resort to name calling when someone gets the better of you? You're worse then you claim Sam is Terry.

As for your arguments, you didn't say common law, you said old English law and I showed you that it in fact does have it's origins in Christianity.

So does our legal system originate from Old English law, which has origins in Christianity, or is it from common law, which “consists of the rules and other doctrine developed gradually by the judges of the English royal courts as the foundation of their decision?”

How can predominately not have a place in the conversation when that is how I clarified my answer to you?

You've not offered any argument against my last post. All you've done is attempt to confuse the conversation by changing the topic.

Try again.
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Post by Aaron Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:56 am

An interesting read that affirms the point I am making.

Is America a Christian Nation?
CARL PEARLSTON
Is America a Christian nation? The answer is both yes and no, depending on what one means by the phrase.

The use of Christian religious references in the recent Presidential Inauguration prayers has served to reopen the debate over religion in America's public life. Professor Alan Dershowitz led off with an article strongly objecting that America wasn't a Christian nation; Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby replied that it certainly was. Who is right? Is America a Christian nation? The answer is both yes and no, depending on what one means by the phrase.
When President Harry Truman wrote to Pope Pius XII in 1947 that "This is a Christian nation.", he certainly did not mean that the United States has an official or legally-preferred religion or church. Nor did he mean to slight adherents of non-Christian religions. But he certainly did mean to recognize that this nation, its institutions and laws, was founded on Biblical principles basic to Christianity and to Judaism from which it flowed. As he told an Attorney General's Conference in 1950, "The fundamental basis of this nation's laws was given to Moses on the Mount. The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings we get from Exodus and Saint Matthew, from Isaiah and Saint Paul. I don't think we emphasize that enough these days. If we don't have a proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the State."

Woodrow Wilson, in his election campaign for President, made the same point: "A nation which does not remember what it was yesterday, does not know what it is today, nor what it is trying to do. We are trying to do a futile thing if we do not know where we came from or what we have been about.... America was born a Christian nation. America was born to exemplify that devotion to the tenets of righteousness which are derived from the revelations of Holy Scripture."

The crucial role of Christianity in this nation's formation is not without dispute, although as Revolutionary leader Patrick Henry said: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship."

John Ashcroft was roundly criticized for his "No King but Jesus" speech at Bob Jones University, but he was only reminding us of our colonial and Revolutionary War heritage. In a 1774 report to King George, the Governor of Boston noted: "If you ask an American, who is his master? He will tell you he has none, nor any governor but Jesus Christ." The pre-war Colonial Committees of Correspondence soon made this the American motto: "No King but King Jesus." And this sentiment was carried over into the 1783 peace treaty with Great Britain ending that war, which begins "In the name of the most Holy and Undivided Trinity... ."

Samuel Adams, who has been called 'The Father of the American Revolution' wrote The Rights of the Colonists in 1772, which stated: "The rights of the colonists as Christians...may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institution of the Great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament."

It is frequently asserted by those seeking to minimize Christianity's central role in our nation's founding and history, that the founders themselves were not practicing Christians, but rather were Deists or Agnostics. In a 1962 speech to Congress, Senator Robert Byrd noted that of the 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 29 were Anglicans, 16-18 were Calvinists, and among the rest were 2 Methodists, 2 Lutherans, 2 Roman Catholics, 1 lapsed Quaker-sometimes Anglican, and only 1 open Deist — Benjamin Franklin who attended all Christian worships and called for public prayer.

Samuel Chase was a signer of the Declaration of Independence, a Justice of the US Supreme Court, and, as Chief Justice of the State of Maryland, wrote in 1799 ( Runkel v Winemiller): "By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion... ." (Maryland was one of nine States having established churches supported by taxpayers at the time of the adoption of the Constitution; these churches were gradually disestablished, the last in 1833. The Maryland constitution, typical of many of the States, restricted public office to Christians until, in 1851, it was changed to allow Jews who believed in a future state of rewards and punishments to also serve).

Christianity pervaded the laws and the legal system of the States and the federal government. For example, Judge Nathaniel Freeman in 1802 charged Massachusetts Grand Juries as follows: "The laws of the Christian system, as embraced by the Bible, must be respected as of high authority in all our courts... . [Our government] originating in the voluntary compact of a people who in that very instrument profess the Christian religion, it may be considered, not as republic Rome was, a Pagan, but a Christian republic." In 1811 ( People v Ruggles), New York Chief Justice James Kent held: "'...whatever strikes at the root of Christianity tends manifestly to the dissolution of civil government... .' We are a Christian people, and the morality of the country is deeply engrafted upon Christianity... . Christianity in its enlarged sense, as a religion revealed and taught in the Bible, is part and parcel of the law of the land... ." In 1824, the Pennsylvania Supreme court held ( Updegraph v The Commonwealth): Christianity, general Christianity, is and always has been a part of the common law...not Christianity founded on any particular religious tenets; not Christianity with an established church, but Christianity with liberty of conscience to all men... ."

Our sixth President, John Quincy Adams said "From the day of the Declaration...they [the American people] were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of The Gospel, which they nearly all, acknowledge as the rules of their conduct"

John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court said: "Providence has given to our people the choice of their ruler, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." This was said despite the explicit provision in the federal Constitution forbidding any religious test for federal public office.

Justice Joseph Story, who was appointed to the US Supreme Court by President Madison, said in an 1829 speech at Harvard: "There never has been a period of history, in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying at its foundation." Story wrote several respected treatises or Commentaries on Constitutional Law, in which are found the following: "Probably, at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, and of the [First] Amendment...the general, if not the universal, sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the State so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience and the freedom of religious worship. Any attempt to level all religions, and to make it a matter of state policy to hold all in utter indifference, would have created universal disapprobation, if not universal indignation."

"The real object of the First Amendment was not to countenance, much less to advance Mohammedanism, or Judaism, or infidelity, by prostrating Christianity, but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects and to prevent any national ecclesiastical patronage of the national government".

Justice Story wrote for a unanimous Supreme Court in 1844 ( Vidal v Girard's Executors): "It is also said, and truly that the Christian religion is a part of the common law... ."

In 1854, The United States House of Congress passed a resolution: "The great vital and conservative element in our system is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and divine truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ."

the rest of the story
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