Re: Why do people believe in the God of the Bible?

by Aaron Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:05 pm

Because I'm not such an arrogant ass that I think I can speak for why others believe the way they do.

It's also not my place to critisize someone for their personal beliefs and I'm not a miserable old man who can't get over the gold star star my 5th grade teacher did or didn't put on the door.

by ziggy Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:29 pm

Aaron wrote:Because I'm not such an arrogant ass that I think I can speak for why others believe the way they do.

It's also not my place to critisize someone for their personal beliefs and I'm not a miserable old man who can't get over the gold star star my 5th grade teacher did or didn't put on the door.

That teacher declared that a Unitarian church did not meet her definition of a church. That's what pissed me off. Who is she to tell a 5th grader what kind of a church he or she should attend so as to be recognized by the teacher for going to the "right" kind of church?

And you are doing the same thing here- declaring me as "anti-Christian" and "miserable" because I dare to challenge the purveyors of certain so-called "Christrian" and other super-natural "religious" doctrines.

Well f--- her, and f--- you and anyone else who deems to presume what kind of spirituality is the only right one for anyone but themselves.

I am the Captain of my fate, and I am the Master of my soul.

by **Stephanie** Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:43 pm

But are you the master of your domain?

Razz

by ziggy Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:51 pm

I just now asked Ms. Ziggy if I could be the master of our domain.

Her reply was, "You haven't learned a thing in 42 years, have you?"

affraid

by **Stephanie** Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:32 pm

You're not a Sienfeld fan, are ya?

by Aaron Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:41 pm

And still, 50 some years later you still hold that kind of anger towards your 5th grader teacher who is likely dead and gone.

And because of her actions, you now hate all religions.

If that's not miserable, I don't know what is.

I can't imagine feeling that way for that long.

by ziggy Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:31 pm

It might be "miserable" for you that I reject your and others' rants about my religious beliefs, or lack thereof. But I'm having the time of my life. One of the ways to enjoy life is to turn our scorning religious and/or political adversaries' tactics into our own tactics- to give 'em a dose of their own medicine.

And you don't seem to have a problem with doing that when it comes to the political opinions of others. But religion and religionists are somehow so untouchably holy as to be immune from in-kind ridicule and scorn such as they pour upon skeptics and unbelievers?

I don't think so!

Religious doctrines and their proponents ought not be and are no more immune to ridicule than political doctrines and their defenders.

by Aaron Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:42 pm

I'm not the one ranting about my 5th grade teacher, which for me was 1977. You are, which had to be what, somewhere around the late 40's to early 50's.

Your words say your not miserable. The tone and the fact that you've carried this for 50 years say different.

So who is it your trying so hard to convince, me or yourself?

by ziggy Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:45 pm

When you debate about politics, who are you trying to convince- yourself or others?

by Aaron Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm

I don't think we're here debating. I think we're here expressing our opinions.

And as mine isn't always set in stone as yours is, it can be changed, the current mess in Gaza being a prime example.

I'm also not so absorbed in myself that I have to be right all the time. If I'm wrong, I admit it.

So when you express your opinion, why do you try so hard to conceal who you really are?

Perhaps if you would lose the facade of who you really are and shed the shackles of hiding your true self, you might not be as miserable as you clearly are.

by ziggy Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:09 pm

What's to "conceal"?

Other than to take the name of a cute little cartoon character I happen to like, I do not conceal anything.

As someone on our high school school yearbook staff had placed under my picture, "I am as I am, and so will I be".

Warts and all.

by ziggy Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:14 pm

Aaron wrote:Perhaps if you would lose the facade of who you really are and shed the shackles of hiding your true self, you might not be as miserable as you clearly are.

So tell us, Aaron, who is the real Ziggy?

Put your forum degree in psychology to work- along with your previously demonstrated psychic powers. Tell us about the real Ziggy- the one behind the "facade".

Folks, pull up a chair, get out that cold 6-pack, prop your feet up, and get ready for a few good belly laughs. 'Cause this is gonna get good!

by Aaron Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:16 pm

So tell me, why has campaign finance laws been your goal for 20+ years? Is it because you want to see a true democracy, which we can't get under our current system?

by ziggy Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:18 pm

Aaron wrote:So tell me, why has campaign finance laws been your goal for 20+ years? Is it because you want to see a true democracy, which we can't get under our current system?

No. It is because I want to see a true and honest republic.

by ziggy Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:20 pm

Since this is the religion forum, and not the politics forum, let's try again- on Sam's question:

Why do people believe in the God of the Bible?

by Aaron Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:16 pm

ziggy wrote:
Aaron wrote:So tell me, why has campaign finance laws been your goal for 20+ years? Is it because you want to see a true democracy, which we can't get under our current system?

No. It is because I want to see a true and honest republic.

Because right now we only choose between millionaires running for election, working class people (the vast majority of society) aren't really represented, right Ziggy.

by ziggy Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:41 pm

This is the religion forum. Why do people believe in the God of the Bible?

by Aaron Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:38 am

ziggy wrote:This is the religion forum. Why do people believe in the God of the Bible?

But wasn’t it you who told me to bring it on, to tell you who the real Ziggy is?

ziggy wrote:
So tell us, Aaron, who is the real Ziggy?

Put your forum degree in psychology to work- along with your previously demonstrated psychic powers. Tell us about the real Ziggy- the one behind the "facade".

Folks, pull up a chair, get out that cold 6-pack, prop your feet up, and get ready for a few good belly laughs. 'Cause this is gonna get good!

Well what do you know; it was you who said that.

I’ve got my psych degree dusted off, the chair cleaned and I’ve got it on good authority that several members have stocked up on 6 packs.

And suddenly you’ve become enthralled with forum integrity.

What’s wrong Ziggy? Am I hitting a little to close to home?

Tell you what I’ll do. I’ll answer your question.

ziggy wrote:This is the religion forum. Why do people believe in the God of the Bible?

For the same reason some believe in the Koran while others believe in Budda and yet others find cows sacred.

It’s really very simple. It’s called free will. In short, it’s because they choose too.

And as we live in a free society where the state doesn't yet control who we worship, that’s their right, don’t you agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So do you still want me to bring it on are are you going to hide behind the pretense of forum integrity and avoid my questions?

by Fletch Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:17 am

Hi, I'm new here, and would have been glad to answer your question, but you already have provided a rather lengthy answer that you believe to be true. So is this a hypothetical question, or do you want actual attempts to answer it from people who actually believe that there is a God?

SamCogar wrote:Why do people believe in the God of the Bible?

Well “DUH”, for the same reason they believe/believed in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. They were taught (nurtured) to believe in all four (4) of them.

But the interesting facts are the methods and sequence that parents or guardians teach children to believe in these mythical characters.

In the majority of all cases very young children are first nurtured to begin believing in Santa Claus via all the Christmas decorations, candy, cookies and presents. And they force this belief in a Santa Clause by instilling fear within them that Santa will not bring them any Christmas presents unless they are good little boys and girls. At the same time the parents start teaching the children an association between Christmas, the Christmas holidays and the Bible ….. but they do not use this Biblical teaching as a fear tactic associated with the Christmas presents, candy, etc.

And the afore said belief in Santa is reinforced when the parents start teaching them about the Easter Bunny. Reinforcing their belief in mythical beings because of the rewards of an Easter Basket, candy and pretty colored eggs. And along with said Easter Bunny and the presents, the parents increase the teaching of an association between said Bunny and the Biblical reason for observing the Easter holidays.

And likewise with the Tooth Fairy, Children are taught if they believe in that mythical being they will be rewarded with money or a present.

Thus they learn at an early age that a belief in a mythical being pretty much guarantees rewards of some kind. And as they mature through their juvenile years believing in those three mythical beings, their nurturing to believe in the mythical God of the Bible and their rewards for doing so is reinforced by daily teaching by their parent.

And it is during their late juvenile period that the parents and guardians start reversing their nurturing tactics. First they tell the children there really is no Easter Bunny so don’t believe in it anymore …… but there really is a God so keep believing in Him and you will get your just rewards.

Next they tell the children there really is no Tooth Fairy so don’t believe in it anymore …… but there really is a God so keep believing in Him and you will get your just rewards.

Next they tell the children there really is no Santa Claus so don’t believe in it anymore …… but there really is a God so keep believing in Him and you will get your just rewards.

And as those children mature into their adolescence years ……. that is exactly what they believe and no one can convince them otherwise. Only they themselves can change that belief but they will retain memories of it for the rest of their lives. And as they near their “end times” that old belief in “just rewards” becomes so over powering that they will “not take a chance” on dying unrewarded with the promises that they were first taught to believe.

.

by SamCogar Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:53 am

Fletch wrote:Hi, I'm new here, and would have been glad to answer your question, but you already have provided a rather lengthy answer that you believe to be true. So is this a hypothetical question, or do you want actual attempts to answer it from people who actually believe that there is a God?

Fletch, it wasn't really a question, but a dessertation that answers the question posed.

But feel free to voice your opinion if you disagree, this is a forum.

by ziggy Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:27 pm

Aaron wrote:
ziggy wrote:This is the religion forum. Why do people believe in the God of the Bible?

But wasn’t it you who told me to bring it on, to tell you who the real Ziggy is?

ziggy wrote:
So tell us, Aaron, who is the real Ziggy?

Put your forum degree in psychology to work- along with your previously demonstrated psychic powers. Tell us about the real Ziggy- the one behind the "facade".

Folks, pull up a chair, get out that cold 6-pack, prop your feet up, and get ready for a few good belly laughs. 'Cause this is gonna get good!

Well what do you know; it was you who said that.

I’ve got my psych degree dusted off, the chair cleaned and I’ve got it on good authority that several members have stocked up on 6 packs.

And suddenly you’ve become enthralled with forum integrity.

What’s wrong Ziggy? Am I hitting a little to close to home?

Tell you what I’ll do. I’ll answer your question.

ziggy wrote:This is the religion forum. Why do people believe in the God of the Bible?

For the same reason some believe in the Koran while others believe in Budda and yet others find cows sacred.

It’s really very simple. It’s called free will. In short, it’s because they choose too.

And as we live in a free society where the state doesn't yet control who we worship, that’s their right, don’t you agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So do you still want me to bring it on are are you going to hide behind the pretense of forum integrity and avoid my questions?

"Bring 'em on". Religion here, politics on the politics forum, etc.

And as we live in a free society where the state doesn't yet control who we worship, that’s their right, don’t you agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, as long as they don't try to make everyone else believe it too.

by Aaron Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:43 pm

Yes, they have the right to try and convince anyone and everyone to convert to their beliefs. It's call free speech and if you don't like it, don't listen and move on.

Of all the rights you have, not being offended or having someone 'preach' to you isn't one of them.

by ziggy Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:46 pm

And I have an equal right to 'preach' right back at them, and I do. I don't stfu for Ms. Ziggy, and I'm not gonna do it for you. So get use to it.

by Aaron Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:55 pm

Frankly, I don't care what you do for Mrs. Ziggy.

And I really don't care if you STFU or not.

If i disagree with your tripe, I'll put you in your place.

I would think by now you'd be used to it.

Laughing

by Fletch Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:21 pm

SamCogar wrote:
Fletch wrote:Hi, I'm new here, and would have been glad to answer your question, but you already have provided a rather lengthy answer that you believe to be true. So is this a hypothetical question, or do you want actual attempts to answer it from people who actually believe that there is a God?

Fletch, it wasn't really a question, but a dessertation that answers the question posed.

But feel free to voice your opinion if you disagree, this is a forum.

I would think a "dessertation" would be a little sweeter. Wink

Actually what you have provided is an opinion whose only authority is the originator of said opinion. If that suits you, fine; but some of us prefer a source of authority and truth independent of ourselves. I would actually phrase it this way: "Truth transcends humanity." Truth exists in spite of humanity's best efforts to destroy it. There has to be truth and untruth. I know that flies in the face of convention in a world today that will only accept one absolute -- that "there are no absolutes". That is the dogma of post-modernism, and it has unfortunately infiltrated even Christendom. Nonetheless, truth and absolutes existed before you and I arrived on the scene, and they will continue long after we are gone. Truth is not something that we discover, it is something that is revealed to us. If you are trying to rationalize God and the Bible, you have completely missed the point.

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