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Obama Looking Out for Little Guy or Business as Usual?

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Post by ohio county Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:53 pm

http://www.dcexaminer.com/opinion/columns/TimothyCarney/Obamas_secret_telecom_advisor_pushing_his_companys_interest_011609.html

Obama delays conversion to digital TV to help out little guy who couldn't figure it out? Or, Obama stalls changeover and enriches lobbyist/contributor? GWB's third term or change you can believe in?
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Post by Aaron Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:03 pm

Bush 3. That's an inetersting concept.

We do know were not going to see the change he promised for almost 2 years.
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Post by ohio county Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:05 pm

And wouldn't it be an outrage if the American consumer, having failed to acquire the $40 box he needs over the course of the last year, had to read a book for a couple evenings or watch DVDs?

we do not were not going to see the change he promised for almost two years.

It's starting to look like "Status Quo you can Believe in".
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Post by SamCogar Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:45 pm

How many of those converter boxes would $4 billion buy?

That is how much they spent before they ran out of "paid slips".

.

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Post by Stephanie Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:31 am

Oh, I read a good book a couple of weeks ago. If you like biographies "Obsessive Genius" is the title, or at least part of it. It's a biography of Marie Curie. I really enjoyed it, even if I didn't understand all the scientific stuff. A little bit was waaayyy over my head, but I still really enjoyed the book.
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Post by ohio county Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:34 am

At $40 a pop, one hundred million.

How many Nobel Prizes did Madame Curie win?
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Post by Stephanie Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:27 am

The whole Nobel Prize thing was one of the most interesting aspects of the story for me.

I'm such a conservative, you know? It's easy for someone like me born decades after women finally got the right to vote in this country and who was a baby when the feminists were burning bras to forget just how difficult things were for women.

When Marie Curie won her first Nobel Prize it was awarded to Marie Curie and her husband, Pierre jointly with a scientist named Henri Becquerel. Marie was not allowed to speak at the awards ceremony. Pierre Curie was outraged by this and delivered a speech that spoke about his wife, how brilliant she was and how great her discoveries and just how hard she labored and how many obstacles she had to overcome.

I needed to read that biography. I have read a couple other biographies but they didn't detail the price she paid because of her gender the way this book did.

Madame Curie was awarded two of them. Her daughter and son-in-law were also awarded at least one Nobel Prize for continuing her work. I think they only got the one, can't remember. My mind is like a sieve much of the time.
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Post by sodbuster Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:39 pm

Well here is a "little guy" asking for Obama's help.

STATE OF TERROR
Dear Mr. President,

As I write this letter, I brace myself for another round of nerve-wracking explosives being detonated above my home in the mountains of West Virginia. Outside my door, pulverized rock dust, laden with diesel fuel and ammonium nitrate explosives hovers in the air, along with the residue of heavy metals that once lay dormant underground.

The mountain above me, once a thriving forest, has been blasted into a pile of rock and mud rubble. Two years ago, it was covered with rich black topsoil and abounded with hardwood trees, rhododendrons, ferns and flowers. The understory thrived with herbs such as ginseng, black cohosh, yellow root and many other medicinal plants. Black bears, deer, wild turkey, hawks, owls
and thousands of [other] birds lived here. The mountain contained sparkling streams teeming with aquatic life and fish.

Now it is all gone. It is all dead. I live at the bottom of a mountain-top-removal coal-mining operation in the Peachtree community.

Mr. President Obama, I am writing you because we have simply run out of options. Last week, the 4th U.S.. Circuit Court in Richmond, Va., overturned a federal court ruling for greater environmental restrictions on mountaintop-removal permits. Dozens of permits now stand to be rushed through. As you know, in December, the EPA under George W. Bush allowed an 11th-hour change to the stream buffer zone rule, further unleashing the coal companies to do as they please.

During your presidential campaign, you declared: “We have to find more environmentally sound ways of mining coal than simply blowing the tops off mountains.”

That time is now. Or never.

Every day, more than 3 million pounds of explosives are detonated in our state to remove our mountains and expose the thin seams of coal. Over 470 mountains in Appalachia have been destroyed in this process, the coal scooped up and hauled away to be burned at coal-fired power plants across our country and abroad. This includes the Potomac River Plant, which generates the electricity for the White House.

Mountaintop removal is the dirty secret in our nation’s energy supply. If coal can’t be mined clean, it can’t be called clean. Here, at the point of extraction, coal passes through a preparation plant that manages to remove some, but not all, of the metals and toxins. Those separated impurities are stored in mammoth toxic sludge dams above our communities throughout Appalachia.

There are three sludge dams within 10 miles of my home. Coal companies are now blasting directly above and next to a dam above my home that contains over 2 billion gallons of toxic waste. That is the same seeping dam that hovers just 400 yards above the Marsh Fork Elementary School. As you know, coal sludge dams have failed before, and lives have been lost.

My family and I, like many American citizens in Appalachia, are living in a state of terror. Like sitting ducks waiting to be buried in an avalanche of mountain waste, or crushed by a falling boulder, we are trapped in a war zone within our own country.

In 1968, I served my country in Vietnam as part of the 1st Battalion 12th Marines, 3rd Marine Division. As you know, Appalachians have never failed to serve our country; our mountain riflemen stood with George Washington at the surrender of the British in Yorktown. West Virginia provided more per capita soldiers for the Union during the Civil War than any other state; we have given our blood for every war since.

We have also given our blood for the burden of coal in these mountains. My uncle died in the underground mines at the age of 17; another uncle was paralyzed from an accident. My dad worked in an underground mine. Many in my family have suffered from black-lung disease.

These mountains are our home. My family roots are deep in these mountains. We homesteaded this area in the 1820s. This is where I was born. This is where I will die.

On Jan.. 15, 1972, U.S. Sen. John D. Rockefeller made a speech at Morris Harvey College. He declared: “The government has turned its back on the many West Virginians who have borne out of their property and out of their pocketbook the destructive impact of strip-mining. We hear that the governor once claimed to have wept as he flew over the strip mine devastation of our state. Now it’s the people who weep.”

Our state government has turned its back on us in 2009.

Peachtree is but one of hundreds of Appalachian communities that are being bombed. Our property has been devalued to worthlessness. Our neighbors put their kids to bed at night with the fear of being crushed or swept away in toxic sludge. And the outside coal industries continue their criminal activity through misleading and false ads.

Mr. President, when I heard you talk during your campaign stops, it made me feel like there was hope for Peachtree and the Coal River Valley of West Virginia. Hope for me and my family.

Abraham Lincoln wrote that we cannot escape history: “The fiery trial through which we pass, will light us down, in honor or dishonor, to the latest generation.”

I beg you to re-light our flame of hope and honor and immediately stop the coal companies from blasting so near our homes and endangering our lives. As you have said, we must find another way than blowing off the tops of our mountains. We must end mountaintop removal.

I also ask you to please put an end to these dangerous toxic-sludge dams.

With utmost respect, yours truly,
Bo Webb
Naoma, W.V.

http://wvhighlands.org/wv_voice/?m=200903

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Post by Stephanie Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:27 pm

Don't hold your breath.
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Post by SheikBen Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:57 pm

Down here in Marseilles (also called Marrtucky), we don't get broadcast tv unless we have a two story stand alone antenna (which, not surprisingly, I don't have.) My wife and I get only one station, which is the televangelist station that comes from the next town over. We cannot get the news or anything else, and we really don't miss it. I miss watching baseball and football, but then there is the bar three blocks down if I'm really jonesing.

So if my wife and I can survive without tv, and we have three killer llamas running around the house, why is it that the gov't has a compelling interest in providing tv? If it is to alert us to trouble, there is always the radio.

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Post by SheikBen Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:59 pm

ohio county wrote:And wouldn't it be an outrage if the American consumer, having failed to acquire the $40 box he needs over the course of the last year, had to read a book for a couple evenings or watch DVDs?

we do not were not going to see the change he promised for almost two years.

It's starting to look like "Status Quo you can Believe in".

Sure, OC, but the campaign slogan "Just like Bush but with higher taxes" would not have been nearly as effective as "change we can believe in."

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Post by SheikBen Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:04 pm

Sod,

Much of what that guy wrote has nothing to do with mountaintop mining. It's lovely that WVA gave the Union so many soldiers, and that his uncles were miners (regrettably having lost their lives), and that he served in 'Nam. Bully.

If mountain top mining is threatening this guy's family, and we need to do away with the coal industry and ruin WVA's economy, well, that's one thing, but don't give me this shinola about having served in 'Nam. Thanks for your service, Cletus, but it's besides the point. If mining is to be stopped, then let it be stopped on the merits of stopping it, not on some story of proud generations long past.

My grandpa was an auto mechanic. That does not make me an authority on the big three bailout. My great, great, great uncle died in the Allied bombing of Dresden. Does that mean that I am right about the flat tax?

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Post by ziggy Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:14 pm

If mountain top mining is threatening this guy's family, and we need to do away with the coal industry and ruin WVA's economy, well, that's one thing, but don't give me this shinola about having served in 'Nam. Thanks for your service, Cletus, but it's besides the point. If mining is to be stopped, then let it be stopped on the merits of stopping it, not on some story of proud generations long past.

What you may or may not realize, Mike, is that the whores for coal- especially mountaintop removal coal- try to marginalize folks like Bo Webb by branding them as old hippy draft dodgers who never worked a day in their lives.
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Post by Aaron Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:25 pm

I don't think I've seen anything like that in all my years in WV. Why good would "marginalizing folks like Bo Webb by branding them as old hippy draft dodgers who never worked a day in their lives" do and how would it benefit coal companies. I don't suppose you have any information on that do you? I would be interested in reading up on it.
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Post by ziggy Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:59 pm

SheikBen wrote:Sod,

Much of what that guy wrote has nothing to do with mountaintop mining. It's lovely that WVA gave the Union so many soldiers, and that his uncles were miners (regrettably having lost their lives), and that he served in 'Nam. Bully.

If mountain top mining is threatening this guy's family, and we need to do away with the coal industry and ruin WVA's economy, well, that's one thing, but don't give me this shinola about having served in 'Nam. Thanks for your service, Cletus, but it's besides the point. If mining is to be stopped, then let it be stopped on the merits of stopping it, not on some story of proud generations long past.

Mike, here's an example of what critics of mountaintop removal are subjected to by certain coal company mouthpieces:

Last Thursday, Don Blankenship, CEO of Massey Energy, the fourth largest United States coal company, described his critics as “communists,” “atheists,” and “greeniacs.” In an address before the Tug Valley Mining Institute in Williamson, WV, Blankenship said those who criticize him are “our enemies” like Osama bin Laden:

"It is as great a pleasure for me to be criticized by the communists and the atheists of the Charleston Gazette as to be applauded by my best friends."
http://www.hillheat.com/articles/2008/11/24/masseys-blankenship-calls-critics-communists-atheists-and-greeniacs

If it is important to say that critics of mountaintop removal (MTR) mining are "communists and athiests"-as though being either would somehow reflect on the merit or lack of merit of mountaintop removal mining- and to say that MTR critics are enemies to be compared to Osama bin Laden, then it is at least as impoartnt for folks like Bob Webb to be able to talk about what they consider their good citizenship credentials.

And conversally, if it is "beside the point" that Bo Webb is a Vietnam War vet, then it is also beside the point that MTR critics are “communists,” “atheists,” and “greeniacs.”
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Post by ohio county Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:28 pm

Well here is a "little guy" asking for Obama's help.

Well (Ever notice how you begin every post with the word "well"?), did the little guy get any help? I saw where the little guy asked for help. I saw little evidence that Obama was going to provide it. What's your point?
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Post by Aaron Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:47 pm

Was he referring to ALL those oppsed to MTR as “communists,” “atheists,” and “greeniacs" or was he referring to critics at the Charleston Gazette as “communists,” “atheists,” and “greeniacs?"
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Post by sodbuster Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:03 pm

Well OC my point was that I doubt this little guy who wrote that letter will get help.

I will be real surprised if he does.

I didnt think you paid that much attention to my writing style.

If it is any comfort to you I also say well a lot when I verbalize.

Only other person I can think of who shared that linguistic habit was old Dutch.

So let's see if he gets any help. Or not.

Also Mike there are other alternatives besides mountaintop removal strip mining for recovering coal.

And underground mining provides a lot more jobs.

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Post by Stephanie Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:27 pm

SheikBen wrote:Down here in Marseilles (also called Marrtucky), we don't get broadcast tv unless we have a two story stand alone antenna (which, not surprisingly, I don't have.) My wife and I get only one station, which is the televangelist station that comes from the next town over. We cannot get the news or anything else, and we really don't miss it. I miss watching baseball and football, but then there is the bar three blocks down if I'm really jonesing.

So if my wife and I can survive without tv, and we have three killer llamas running around the house, why is it that the gov't has a compelling interest in providing tv? If it is to alert us to trouble, there is always the radio.

Mike,

My mother-in-law lives in a little town called Killbuck, OH. It's also known as "Killtucky". lol

I think without tv the govt figures you're inclined to have a few more killer llamas running around the house. Given your conservative leanings, the party in control certainly doesn't want that! lol
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Post by SheikBen Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:10 am

Ziggy,

Yes, the merits of MTR (or the demerits of it) are completely unrelated to whether or not it's opponents are greeniacs or commies.

Just like they are completely unrelated to this guy's service in 'Nam.

Just because "the other side is doing it" does not mean that this piece of propaganda gets a pass. If MTR is wrong (and threatening this guy's family), I don't care if he's a vet or an Enron retiree. It's completely beside the question and only obscures the real matter.

I don't know, really, if MTR is "wrong." I really like the mountains and I also like the lights on. But whether or not MTR is right surely does not depend on whether Bo is a sinner or a saint, a Republican or a Democrat, a "greenie" or a "suit."

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Post by sodbuster Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:18 am

Well the families down there should not have to live in terror or intimidation by the coal company operators.

Although West Virginia families have done so for generations.

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Post by SheikBen Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:00 am

OK, Sherm, if indeed people are being placed in danger, it is very wrong.

Why, then, all this nonsense about how wonderful this guy is? Would somehow placing someone in danger due to MTR be OK if they were an Enron CEO?

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Post by sodbuster Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:20 am

I would say he mentioned being a combat veteran for the same reason Kerry emphasized his military record.

Because he knew it was standard operating procedure for the rightwing partisans to question his patriotism and call him a heathen and maybe even a child molestor.

Self defense.

So now you are criticizing him and belittling him for his service as a combat veteran. Go figure.

And the irony of it is the post was made to give a grudging concession that the guy would not get any relief from the Pres.

So call him what you want I dont care.

Blow his house to hell and drown his kids in toxic sludge.

It's the Company's coal and bigod they got a right to mine it and if he does not like it let him eat cake or move to Cleveland.


Last edited by sodbuster on Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:07 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : clarification)

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Post by ohio county Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:28 am

So now you guys are attacking him because he is a combat veteran go figure.

Who attacked him? Be specific. Who, assuming "you guys" means rightwingers, attacked this guy at all much less for being a combat veteran?
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Post by Aaron Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:12 am

sodbuster wrote:Blow his house to hell and drown his kids in toxic sludge.

It's Massey's coal and bigod they got a right to mine it and if he does not like it let him eat cake or move to Cleveland.

You sure? Arch Coal (Ziggy at one time touted that all coal companies should be like Arch) is the largest MTR miner in West Virginia. Perhaps it's their coal.
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