What Did They Really Say?

What Did They Really Say?

Compiled by Chaplain Alan Farley

Matthew 12:34, “O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.”

Luke 6:45, “A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.”

The last two weeks we have run quotes from a lot of folks, some who hate God, our country and freedom, and others who love God and this country which God used them to found. This week, in the last devotional on our Founder’s quotes, for now anyway, we wanted to bring you some quotes from our Founders on what they really thought of God, Christ and Christianity

Our current President says we are not a Christian nation and there are many who argue that we never were. The Bible is dead on when it says that it is what is in our heart that controls what comes out our mouth. If our heart is without God, if it is evil we will not talk about God; but if God is in our heart we cannot keep from talking about Him

Read what our founders said and compare their words with those who are re-writing our history in an effort to exclude God. It is our pray this will stir a bunch of you up enough to vote out of office those who are bent on destroying our nation.

John Adams and John Hancock:

“We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus!” [April 18, 1775]

John Adams:

1. “The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”

2. “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress

3. "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

4. "I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson

5. "Without Religion this World would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817]



Samuel Adams:

1.“He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all… Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.” [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]

2.“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.” [October 4, 1790]

John Quincy Adams:

1. “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.

2. “The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.”
John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61


Benjamin Franklin:

1. “God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787

2. “In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]

In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."

In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."

Alexander Hamilton:

Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great:
(1) Christianity
(2) a Constitution formed under Christianity.
“The Christian Constitutional Society, its object is first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.”

On July 12, 1804 at his death, Hamilton said, “I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.”

"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." [1787 after the Constitutional Convention]

"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."



John Hancock:

1.“In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.
"A Day of Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer, with a total abstinence from labor and recreation. Proclamation on April 15, 1775"

Thomas Jefferson:

1. “ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

2. “Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

3. "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

4. “God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]

5. “The government of the Baptist Church is the government I want for my country.”

Samuel Johnston:

1. “It is apprehended that Jews, Mahometans (Muslims), pagans, etc., may be elected to high offices under the government of the United States. Those who are Mahometans, or any others who are not professors of the Christian religion, can never be elected to the office of President or other high office, [unless] first the people of America lay aside the Christian religion altogether, it may happen. Should this unfortunately take place, the people will choose such men as think as they do themselves.
[Elliot’s Debates, Vol. IV, pp 198-199, Governor Samuel Johnston, July 30, 1788 at the North Carolina Ratifying Convention]



James Madison:

1. “ We’ve staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart.”

2. “We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]

3. “I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare the unsatisfactoriness [of temporal enjoyments] by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way.” Letter by Madison to William Bradford (September 25, 1773)

4. In 1812, President Madison signed a federal bill which economically aided the Bible Society of Philadelphia in its goal of the mass distribution of the Bible.
“ An Act for the relief of the Bible Society of Philadelphia” Approved February 2, 1813 by Congress

5. “It is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.”

6. “A watchful eye must be kept on ourselves lest, while we are building ideal monuments of renown and bliss here, we neglect to have our names enrolled in the Annals of Heaven.” [Letter by Madison to William Bradford [urging him to make sure of his own salvation] November 9, 1772]

7. At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22; “For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us.”

Baron Charles Montesquieu: wrote in 1748; “Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it [the power of judging] were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislature if it were joined to the executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same … body of principal men … exercised these three powers." Madison claimed Isaiah 33:22 as the source of division of power in government
See also: pp.241-242 in Teaching and Learning America’s Christian History: The Principle approach by Rosalie Slater]


George Washington: Farewell Address:

“The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion" ...and later: "...reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle..."

“ It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.”

“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.” [speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779]

"To the distinguished character of patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian" [May 2, 1778, at Valley Forge]

During his inauguration, Washington took the oath as prescribed by the Constitution but added several religious components to that official ceremony. Before taking his oath of office, he summoned a Bible on which to take the oath, added the words “So help me God!” to the end of the oath, then leaned over and kissed the Bible.



--
Watching For HIS Soon Return,
Chaplain Alan Farley
www.rmjc.org

Other Jefferson quotes:

"The Christian God is a being of terrific character - cruel, vindictive, capricious, and unjust”.

“Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man”.

“We discover (in the gospels) a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication”.

“Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear”.

“Religions are all alike -- founded upon fables and mythologies”
-------------------------

Jefferson understood the stark contrast between Jesus, the historical man of peace and wisdom, and Jesus the mythical god.

ziggy wrote:Other Jefferson quotes:

"The Christian God is a being of terrific character - cruel, vindictive, capricious, and unjust”.

“Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man”.

“We discover (in the gospels) a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication”.

“Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear”.

“Religions are all alike -- founded upon fables and mythologies”
-------------------------

Jefferson understood the stark contrast between Jesus, the historical man of peace and wisdom, and Jesus the mythical god.

References??

http://nobeliefs.com/jefferson.htm

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/the_rational_response_squad_radio_show/general_conversation_introductions_and_humor/7532

Keli wrote:4. In 1812, President Madison signed a federal bill which economically aided the Bible Society of Philadelphia in its goal of the mass distribution of the Bible.
“ An Act for the relief of the Bible Society of Philadelphia” Approved February 2, 1813 by Congress

Liars for Jesus By Chris Rodda

http://books.google.com/books?id=TJoANNZGtfUC&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=An+Act+for+the+relief+of+the+Bible+Society+of+Philadelphia&source=bl&ots=yOORzvD-d3&sig=-54Dpmc3dBlLLSJ2WnMrkrjrLaI&hl=en&ei=ikhISvKKCoWHtgeW4uXECQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

"In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to
liberty; he is always in allegiance to the despot, abetting his
abuses in return for protection of his own; they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose."
[Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio Spofford, 1814]


"... I am not afraid of priests. They have tried upon me all their various
batteries of pious whining, hypocritical canting, lying and slandering. I
have contemplated their order from the Magi of the East to the Saints of the
West and I have found no difference of character, but of more or less
caution, in proportion to their information or ignorance on whom their
interested duperies were to be played off. Their sway in New England is
indeed formidable. No mind beyond mediocrity dares there to develop
itself."
[Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio Spofford, 1816]

"The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature
shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings
shall rule it by fictitious miracles?"
[John Adams]
-------
"...this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there
were no religion in it."
[John Adams]


"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are
injurious
to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty
gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
[Thomas Jefferson]
-------

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."
[Benjamin Franklin]


"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it
does not support itself so that its professors are obliged to call for the
help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."
[Ben Franklin]

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society?
In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the
ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen
upholding
the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the
guardians
of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public
liberty
may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just
government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
[James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785]

"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of
maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary
operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment
of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less,
in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility
in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
[James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785]
-------
"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation.
But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been
blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the
most bloody religion that ever existed?"
[John Adams, letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816]
-------
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of
the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross.
Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
[John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson]
-------
"What havoc has been made of books through every century of the Christian
era?
Where are fifty gospels, condemned as spurious by the bull of Pope Gelasius?
Where are the forty wagon-loads of Hebrew manuscripts burned in France, by
order of another pope, because suspected of heresy? Remember the 'index
expurgatorius', the inquisition, the stake, the axe, the halter and the
guillotine."
[John Adams, letter to John Taylor]

"The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning.
And ever since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or
dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest
billingsgate,
the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality, is patiently
endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth
in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof,
and you will find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm
about your eyes and hand, and fly into your face and eyes."
[John Adams, letter to John Taylor]
-------
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are
servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal
for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of
a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of
reason
than that of blindfolded fear."
[Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787]
-------
"It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in
the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet that
the one is not three, and the three are not one. But this constitutes the
craft, the power and the profit of the priests."
[Thomas Jefferson, to John Adams, 1803]
-------
"But a short time elapsed after the death of the great reformer of the
Jewish religion, before his principles were departed from by those who
professed to be his special servants, and perverted into an engine for
enslaving mankind, and aggrandizing their oppressors in Church and State."
[Thomas Jefferson, to S. Kercheval, 1810]
-------
"History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people
maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade
of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders
will always avail themselves for their own purpose."
[Thomas Jefferson, to Baron von Humboldt, 1813]
-------
"On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles,
all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been
quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for
abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and
absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind."
[Thomas Jefferson, to Carey, 1816]

"The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man.
But compare with these the demoralizing dogmas of Calvin:
1. That there are three Gods.
2. That good works, or the love of our neighbor, is nothing.
3. That faith is every thing, and the more incomprehensible
the proposition, the more merit the faith.
4. That reason in religion is of unlawful use.
5. That God, from the beginning, elected certain individuals
to be saved, and certain others to be damned; and that no crimes
of the former can damn them; no virtues of the latter save."
[Thomas Jefferson, to Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822]z
-------
"Creeds have been the bane of the Christian church
... made of Christendom a slaughter-house."
[Thomas Jefferson, to Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822]

"The truth is, that the greatest enemies of the doctrine of Jesus are those,
calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them to the
structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any
foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come when the mystical
generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his Father, in the womb of a
virgin will be classified with the fable of the generation of Minerva in
the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom
of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial
scaffolding and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this
most venerated Reformer of human errors."
[Thomas Jefferson, to John Adams, Apr. 11, 1823]

"The metaphysical insanities of Athanasius, of Loyola, and
of Calvin, are, to my understanding, mere lapses into polytheism,
differing from paganism only by being more unintelligible."
[Thomas Jefferson, to Jared Sparks, 1820]
-------
"I think vital religion has always suffered when orthodoxy is more
regarded than virtue. The scriptures assure me that at the last day
we shall not be examined on what we thought but what we did."
[Benjamin Franklin, letter to his father, 1738]
-------
"I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite
Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us,
but that He is even infinitely above it."
[Benjamin Franklin from "Articles of Belief
and Acts of Religion", Nov. 20, 1728]
-------
"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean
real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making
long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men,
and much less capable of pleasing the Deity."
[Benjamin Franklin, Works, Vol. VII, p. 75]
-------
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in
Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been
persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians
thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on
one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed
persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans.
They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves
both here (England) and in New England."
[Benjamin Franklin]

First of all let's change the word religion to Christianity, since that is the thrust of both Keli and Ziggy.

Secondly, let's practice some honesty here. None of us know exactly wha the framers of the US Constitution thought in regard to christainity. All we have is their writings and thus all we can do is base our views on what they wrote. Since we do not know the entire reasoning behind their writings we can only make assumptions and that is it.

Third, notice that it is not Christainity that is being discussed, it is man's reaction to and use of Christainity that is the issue. Christianity can be a tool for good or it can be used as tool for evil depending on the motiviations of those using it.

The thrust of the scriptures is that man is responsible for himself and his actions. Whether you want to believe it or not all rights originate with God and cheif amoung these rights is the right to life, secondly is the right to self determination. It makes little difference what the framers believed, until we understand that all right originate with God and respect the rights to life and self determination we will do little but make one mess on top of another.

Cato

What Jefferson said depended upon to whom he was speaking. He would and did say anything.

ohio county wrote:What Jefferson said depended upon to whom he was speaking. He would and did say anything.

William Jefferson Clinton vis-a-vis Thomas Jefferson?

What Jefferson said depended upon to whom he was speaking. He would and did say anything.

As often would the other Founders. They were politicians, not religionists.

So wouldn't that mean that they were actually more or less indifferent to religion and the established 18th century churches than advocates for it / them?

I disagree Cato. I think it's pretty clear what the founders thought of religion. They based this country on religious values and yes, basically we are a Christian nation. What they did not want was a state sponsored religion or religion controlling government.

From that liberals have prostituted the first amendment to the point that they claim the separation of church and state when such a separation is never mentioned in the Constitution.

Third, notice that it is not Christainity that is being discussed, it is man's reaction to and use of Christainity that is the issue.

Then would the real Jesus please stand up?!

"But a short time elapsed after the death of the great reformer of the
Jewish religion, before his principles were departed from by those who
professed to be his special servants, and perverted into an engine for
enslaving mankind, and aggrandizing their oppressors in Church and State."
[Thomas Jefferson, to S. Kercheval, 1810]

From that liberals have prostituted the first amendment to the point that they claim the separation of church and state when such a separation is never mentioned in the Constitution.

We find it often in the writings of both Madison and Jefferson- especially Madison.

What you find is a desire for no state sponsored religion or religious control of religion over the government. What you don't find is a basis for the all out assault on religion by the left which has occurred over the past 50 years or so.

And regardless of who wrote what in the latter part of their life, you don't find it in the constitution, which is the ONLY place it counts.

Like it or not, the United States is a Christian nation founded on Christian values and there is nothing anyone from the left can do or say to change that, gold stars notwithstanding.

Sorry dude.

James Madison on Separation of Church and State

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All quotation taken from Robert S. Alley, ed., James Madision on Religious Liberty, pp. 37-94.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

James Madison (1751-1836) is popularly known as the "Father of the Constitution." More than any other framer he is responsible for the content and form of the First Amendment. His understanding of federalism is the theoretical basis of our Constitution. He served as President of the United States between 1809-1817.

Madison's most famous statement on behalf of religious liberty was his Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, which he wrote to oppose a bill that would have authorized tax support for Christian ministers in the state of Virginia.

Other sources for Madison's beliefs are his letter to Jasper Adams, where he argues on behalf of letting religion survive on its own merits, and a 1792 article in which he suggests that there is no specific religious sanction for American government.

Finally, a good deal of Madision's Detached Memoranda concerns the issue of religious liberty. This material is particularly important in that it gives Madision's views of a number of events that are sometimes disputed by accomodationists (eg., congressional chaplains, days of prayer, etc.).

Direct references to separation:

The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State (Letter to Robert Walsh, Mar. 2, 1819).

Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and & Gov't in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history (Detached Memoranda, circa 1820).

Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together (Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822).
I must admit moreover that it may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and the civil authority with such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential points. The tendency to a usurpation on one side or the other or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them will be best guarded against by entire abstinence of the government from interference in any way whatever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order and protecting each sect against trespasses on its legal rights by others. (Letter Rev. Jasper Adams, Spring 1832).


To the Baptist Churches on Neal's Greek on Black Creek, North Carolina I have received, fellow-citizens, your address, approving my objection to the Bill containing a grant of public land to the Baptist Church at Salem Meeting House, Mississippi Territory. Having always regarded the practical distinction between Religion and Civil Government as essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, I could not have otherwise discharged my duty on the occasion which presented itself (Letter to Baptist Churches in North Carolina, June 3, 1811).

http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/qmadison.htm

Jefferson was the nation's first politician.

Aaron wrote:What you find is a desire for no state sponsored religion or religious control of religion over the government. What you don't find is a basis for the all out assault on religion by the left which has occurred over the past 50 years or so.

And regardless of who wrote what in the latter part of their life, you don't find it in the constitution, which is the ONLY place it counts.

Tell that to the guy who posted this:

Keli wrote:What Did They Really Say?

Compiled by Chaplain Alan Farley

Matthew 12:34, “O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.”

Luke 6:45, “A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.”

The last two weeks we have run quotes from a lot of folks, some who hate God, our country and freedom, and others who love God and this country which God used them to found. This week, in the last devotional on our Founder’s quotes, for now anyway, we wanted to bring you some quotes from our Founders on what they really thought of God, Christ and Christianity

Our current President says we are not a Christian nation and there are many who argue that we never were. The Bible is dead on when it says that it is what is in our heart that controls what comes out our mouth. If our heart is without God, if it is evil we will not talk about God; but if God is in our heart we cannot keep from talking about Him

Read what our founders said and compare their words with those who are re-writing our history in an effort to exclude God. It is our pray this will stir a bunch of you up enough to vote out of office those who are bent on destroying our nation.

John Adams and John Hancock:

“We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus!” [April 18, 1775]

John Adams:

1. “The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”

2. “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress

3. "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

4. "I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson

5. "Without Religion this World would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817]



Samuel Adams:

1.“He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all… Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.” [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]

2.“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.” [October 4, 1790]

John Quincy Adams:

1. “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.

2. “The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.”
John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61


Benjamin Franklin:

1. “God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787

2. “In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]

In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."

In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."

Alexander Hamilton:

Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great:
(1) Christianity
(2) a Constitution formed under Christianity.
“The Christian Constitutional Society, its object is first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.”

On July 12, 1804 at his death, Hamilton said, “I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.”

"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." [1787 after the Constitutional Convention]

"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."



John Hancock:

1.“In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.
"A Day of Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer, with a total abstinence from labor and recreation. Proclamation on April 15, 1775"

Thomas Jefferson:

1. “ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

2. “Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

3. "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

4. “God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]

5. “The government of the Baptist Church is the government I want for my country.”

Samuel Johnston:

1. “It is apprehended that Jews, Mahometans (Muslims), pagans, etc., may be elected to high offices under the government of the United States. Those who are Mahometans, or any others who are not professors of the Christian religion, can never be elected to the office of President or other high office, [unless] first the people of America lay aside the Christian religion altogether, it may happen. Should this unfortunately take place, the people will choose such men as think as they do themselves.
[Elliot’s Debates, Vol. IV, pp 198-199, Governor Samuel Johnston, July 30, 1788 at the North Carolina Ratifying Convention]



James Madison:

1. “ We’ve staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart.”

2. “We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]

3. “I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare the unsatisfactoriness [of temporal enjoyments] by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way.” Letter by Madison to William Bradford (September 25, 1773)

4. In 1812, President Madison signed a federal bill which economically aided the Bible Society of Philadelphia in its goal of the mass distribution of the Bible.
“ An Act for the relief of the Bible Society of Philadelphia” Approved February 2, 1813 by Congress

5. “It is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.”

6. “A watchful eye must be kept on ourselves lest, while we are building ideal monuments of renown and bliss here, we neglect to have our names enrolled in the Annals of Heaven.” [Letter by Madison to William Bradford [urging him to make sure of his own salvation] November 9, 1772]

7. At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22; “For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us.”

Baron Charles Montesquieu: wrote in 1748; “Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it [the power of judging] were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislature if it were joined to the executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same … body of principal men … exercised these three powers." Madison claimed Isaiah 33:22 as the source of division of power in government
See also: pp.241-242 in Teaching and Learning America’s Christian History: The Principle approach by Rosalie Slater]


George Washington: Farewell Address:

“The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion" ...and later: "...reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle..."

“ It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.”

“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.” [speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779]

"To the distinguished character of patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian" [May 2, 1778, at Valley Forge]

During his inauguration, Washington took the oath as prescribed by the Constitution but added several religious components to that official ceremony. Before taking his oath of office, he summoned a Bible on which to take the oath, added the words “So help me God!” to the end of the oath, then leaned over and kissed the Bible.



--
Watching For HIS Soon Return,
Chaplain Alan Farley
www.rmjc.org

Jefferson was one of many politicians of his time. The partisanship during that time was as bad, if not worse, then it is today. The Vice President of the United States KILLED one of the opposing party leaders in a duel over a 15 year political fued. Can you imagine Dick Cheney and Harry Reid meeting for an early morning duel?

The fact that 55 delegats were able to get together and put forth the Constitution that is the basis for our way of life is a miracle.

ziggy wrote:
Tell that to the guy who posted this:

Why do I need to tell him what he’s already basically saying? The United States is a Christian nation founded on Christian beliefs and principals.

Cato wrote:The thrust of the scriptures is that man is responsible for himself and his actions. Whether you want to believe it or not all rights originate with God and cheif amoung these rights is the right to life, secondly is the right to self determination. It makes little difference what the framers believed, until we understand that all right originate with God and respect the rights to life and self determination we will do little but make one mess on top of another.

Cato

So how were the Founders so careless as to not put this into the Constitution- in the Bill of Rights, for example?

Aaron wrote:

ziggy wrote:
Tell that to the guy who posted this:

Why do I need to tell him what he’s already basically saying? The United States is a Christian nation founded on Christian beliefs and principals.

So you disagree with whoever said that if you don't find it in the Constitution, that it doesn't count?

ziggy wrote:

Cato wrote:The thrust of the scriptures is that man is responsible for himself and his actions. Whether you want to believe it or not all rights originate with God and cheif amoung these rights is the right to life, secondly is the right to self determination. It makes little difference what the framers believed, until we understand that all right originate with God and respect the rights to life and self determination we will do little but make one mess on top of another.

Cato

So how were the Founders so careless as to not put this into the Constitution- in the Bill of Rights, for example.

Do you mean the founders who felt that basic rights were so fundamental and could never be taken away that there was no document needed to protect the rights that we ordained by God and the ONLY reason they agreed on a BOR's was to get the Constitution ratified?

Would that be the founders you're referring to?

ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:

ziggy wrote:
Tell that to the guy who posted this:

Why do I need to tell him what he’s already basically saying? The United States is a Christian nation founded on Christian beliefs and principals.

So you disagree with whoever said that if you don't find it in the Constitution, that it doesn't count?

Are you referring to the prostitution of the First Amendment by the left and the so called separation of church and state?

Because if you go back and read what I wrote, it's crystal that's what I was referring to.

You're not trying to twist words to try to prove a point that you just can't proven, are you?

Aaron wrote:

ziggy wrote:

Cato wrote:The thrust of the scriptures is that man is responsible for himself and his actions. Whether you want to believe it or not all rights originate with God and cheif amoung these rights is the right to life, secondly is the right to self determination. It makes little difference what the framers believed, until we understand that all right originate with God and respect the rights to life and self determination we will do little but make one mess on top of another.

Cato

So how were the Founders so careless as to not put this into the Constitution- in the Bill of Rights, for example.

Do you mean the founders who felt that basic rights were so fundamental and could never be taken away that there was no document needed to protect the rights that we ordained by God and the ONLY reason they agreed on a BOR's was to get the Constitution ratified?

How do we know they felt that way? Remember who said that if it's not in the Constitution, that it doesn't "count".

Would that be the founders you're referring to?

I am referring to the ones who wrote and agreed to the Constitution.

Aaron wrote:

ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:

ziggy wrote:
Tell that to the guy who posted this:

Why do I need to tell him what he’s already basically saying? The United States is a Christian nation founded on Christian beliefs and principals.

So you disagree with whoever said that if you don't find it in the Constitution, that it doesn't count?

Are you referring to the prostitution of the First Amendment by the left and the so called separation of church and state?

Because if you go back and read what I wrote, it's crystal that's what I was referring to.

You're not trying to twist words to try to prove a point that you just can't proven, are you?

So again, do you disagree with whoever said that if you don't find it in the Constitution, that it doesn't count?