Education is sometimes painful .... for both parties.

by SamCogar Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:20 am

ATLANTA - A Georgia man has been found guilty of second degree child cruelty for slapping a crying 2-year-old at a Walmart.

Roger Stephens of Stone Mountain was convicted Tuesday in a Gwinnett County bench trial, which is held without a jury.

Stephens, who was 61 when arrested, will spend six months in jail followed by six months of home confinement.

Authorities say the girl and her mother were shopping on Aug. 31, when the toddler began crying. The police report says Stephens approached the mother and said, "If you don't shut that baby up, I will shut her up for you."

Authorities say Stephens then slapped her four or five times.

According to police, Stephens said: "See, I told you I would shut her up."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34945083/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

by Cato Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:35 am

SamCogar wrote:
ATLANTA - A Georgia man has been found guilty of second degree child cruelty for slapping a crying 2-year-old at a Walmart.

Roger Stephens of Stone Mountain was convicted Tuesday in a Gwinnett County bench trial, which is held without a jury.

Stephens, who was 61 when arrested, will spend six months in jail followed by six months of home confinement.

Authorities say the girl and her mother were shopping on Aug. 31, when the toddler began crying. The police report says Stephens approached the mother and said, "If you don't shut that baby up, I will shut her up for you."

Authorities say Stephens then slapped her four or five times.

According to police, Stephens said: "See, I told you I would shut her up."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34945083/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

There is little that can set me off faster than someone's kid pitching a temper tantrum in a store. More than once I have felt like doing what this man did, especially since most parents lack the guts to discipline their kids.

by Aaron Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:23 pm

It wouldn't have to have been my kid, had I been around, someone would have taken an whooping. You don't go hitting on someone else's kid for ANY reason.

by **Stephanie** Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:14 pm

Yeah, I'm with Aaron on this one. If that had been me and my little darling (oh yeah, I know he can be a brat), I would have been the one going to jail.

by SamCogar Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:06 am

And if it was a kid with a "jambox" turned up full volume you all would do what?

by Aaron Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:57 pm

If I were the final solution, I would call the law. What would you do?

by **Stephanie** Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:43 pm

I seriously doubt a 2 y/o is would have one of those things, at any volume.

by SamCogar Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:47 am

But that 2 y/o will soon be in Elementary School and Teachers can't call the Law ....... because that kid will just tell the Law to go to hell the same as it tells the teachers.

by **Stephanie** Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:53 pm

Are you suggesting it should not be against the law for a stranger to strike a two y/o?

Toddlers cry. They sometimes do it in public. Crotchety old men need to get over it.

by Cato Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:28 pm

Stephanie wrote:Are you suggesting it should not be against the law for a stranger to strike a two y/o?

Toddlers cry. They sometimes do it in public. Crotchety old men need to get over it.

I don't what Sam is suggeting, but I'm willing to suggest it. Yes, Stephanie, I would paddle a kid other than my own, if the occasion called for it. I can no longer count the times I have been in a store where someone's spawn was throwing a tantrum. I can't speak for another soul here, but I get tired of it and it doesn't take me long to do so. I don't go to the store to listen to some brat yell because they didn't get something they wanted.

My wife and I raised three kids and not once did we ever have one of our kids throw at tantrum in a store. Even at the age of two they knew better. They knew one of us would warm their behind for that type of behavior.

Parents today have spent far too much time listening to Dr. Spock and the touchy feely folks for their own kid's good. A little less worry about the kid's self esteem and liitle more worry about consequences of behavior would go along way toward straightening out the mess we see today, with our young.

by **Stephanie** Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:34 pm

You are nuts.

by Cato Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:29 pm

Stephanie wrote:You are nuts.

Why, because I have certain expectation of behavior? Maybe if parents expected their kids to behave and held them to that expectation we won't be having this discussion.

Education is sometimes painful .... for both parties. 248524

Education is sometimes painful .... for both parties. 248524

by **Stephanie** Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:12 pm

No, because you're delusional. Toddlers have tantrums. It's developmentally appropriate. Your children had tantrums too. Perhaps your memory has been clouded by time. Perhaps you were so busy with providing for them you weren't around to witness these events. It's possible you're just in denial.

Anybody who thinks the solution to a toddler's temper tantrum is a paddle knows nothing about children. That's barbaric and to suggest that you should be able to do such a thing to somebody else's child is a clear demonstration just how out of touch with reality you are.

Actions have consequences for adults too. Strike a child in public and you'll likely find out what the consequences for that action is too.

by **Stephanie** Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:14 pm

For the record, when I see children out of control in public, it's the parents I think need correcting.

by Cato Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:20 pm

Stephanie wrote:

Anybody who thinks the solution to a toddler's temper tantrum is a paddle knows nothing about children. That's barbaric and to suggest that you should be able to do such a thing to somebody else's child is a clear demonstration just how out of touch with reality you are.

You are certainly right on one account, I am a barbarian.

by SamCogar Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:19 am

Stephanie wrote:Are you suggesting it should not be against the law for a stranger to strike a two y/o?

I'm not suggesting anything.

I'm tellling you that undisciplined 2 y/o's will grow up to be adolesents that don't give a damn what Teachers or anyone else thinks.

And those adolescents will grow up to birth more children that are likely to be far worse than their parents ever were.

And our public schools are now polutted with them and which their actions only serve to set bad examples for and to disrupt and hinder the education of their peers ....... and thus provides reasons for concerned citizens to "badmouth" the School System for not having provided an adequate education to graduating students.

by SamCogar Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:34 am

Stephanie wrote:For the record, when I see children out of control in public, it's the parents I think need correcting.

I think I heard about a fellow who has a dog for a house pet which gave birth to a litter of pups. When those pups got old enough to be running around the house, peeing on the floor and nipping at everyone heels, that fellow decided the mother needed the correcting.

I never did hear how well he made out with that "plan". Education is sometimes painful .... for both parties. 33948

Education is sometimes painful .... for both parties. 33948

by **SheikBen** Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:38 am

I think Sam is really onto something when the education purveyors are blamed for the kids who have never been disciplined. The teachers can't, and the parents won't. Often when the parents finally get around to trying to discipline the kids, it is too late, and the influences at school are going to outweight even the best attempts of the parent at home.

It occurs to me that in my part-time work with teens performing court-ordered community service, mine is the first program (and the only besides corrections) that an actual consequence exists for non-compliance. Meanwhile the teachers' unions treat money as the cure-all to what ails them, as opposed to better teachers with more and quicker ability to discipline the wayward.

by Aaron Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:06 am

None of that gives anyone the right to 'spank' a 2 year old kid in public for crying Mike and for anyone to submit otherwise is lunacy.

by **SheikBen** Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:57 pm

Aaron, I don't disagree with that. The fact is that when older kids act out, the parents end up "paying" in one way or the other. I would never spank another parent's child and I agree with you that this is not good form.

I agree with others, here, though, that some kids desperately need a little mroe than a 30 second time out to plan further attacks.......Billy Graham had the greatest quote. He said something to the effect of "whenever I hear that all a kid needs is a pat on the back, I think that if it is low enough, and hard enough, it might do some good."

by SamCogar Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:48 pm

a kid in public crying

All right, why don't you all define, say from one (1) to seven (7) levels or stages of "crying" and define what the parental action should be for each one:

1. Soft sobbing because of a bumped shin or sore tummy.
Parental action:______________________________
2.
Parental action:______________________________
3.
Parental action:______________________________
4.
Parental action:______________________________
5.
Parental action:______________________________
6.
Parental action:______________________________
7. Violently screaming, flailing their arms and legs, throwing things and/or rolling around on the floor kicking at anyone that comes close.
Parental action:______________________________

Education is sometimes painful .... for both parties. 46059

Education is sometimes painful .... for both parties. 81632

.

by Aaron Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:24 pm

SamCogar wrote:
a kid in public crying

parental action

Key words Sam.

by SamCogar Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:58 am

Aaron wrote:
SamCogar wrote:
a kid in public crying

parental action

Key words Sam.

I thought so, too, Aaron, and you being a parent was why I figured you would know what those parental actions should be for each of the 7 different scenarios.

Many parents are oblivious to the actions of their children ...... but I figured you were not one of them.

by Aaron Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:31 am

I've never seen your list Sam so I have no idea what you're looking for on 2-7. As for those listed, all I can say is what I would do with my 2 year old for the 2 listed.

For the first, I would comfort and console going so far as to kiss the boo boo because to 2 year olds, mommy and daddy kisses has the same effect morphine has on an adult with kidney stones. Can I get a witness, whoop whoop.

And on 7, in the words of my father, I would 'give em something to cry about' and my experiences is that stops the 'tantrums' and causes the said child to seek out the answer for the first one listed as 2 year olds very seldom stay mad for long.

The point I was making earlier is that whatever the reaction to what you listed is, it is the responsibility of the parent, not some stranger in the line at Krogers. I've been there and when the old woman told me I shouldn't 'spank that poor baby, I told her to mind her own f***ing business.

So is that what you're looking for?

by wvsasha Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:14 am

I've never had a problem spanking my own children - in public or at home - when the behavior called for it.

But there's a difference between spanking and beating.

If I saw someone beating a child, I would step in. If I saw someone spanking their child, I would probably applaud.

A two-year old can certainly handle a swat to the diapered behind as a dis-incentive to continue said behavior just as they can handle a swat to the hand to keep them from reaching for a hot stove.

I have one daughter (15 y.o.) who I can melt into tears with just "the stink eye" but the other (11 y.o. in 19 days) we've learned is much thicker-skinned and can literally take a spanking by her father and not shed a tear. So we adjust for each one what is appropriate discipline along with natural consequences for their behaviors. So far it's working. Call me back in another 10 or so years.

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