Is America Losing Science Brainpower Advantage?

YES, and the reason is that the lefty liberal greeny tree-hugging and/or conservation loving Teachers and Professors are emphasizing and teaching their “Junk Science” and “political agendas” on the aforesaid instead of teaching actual, factual Science and its associated Laws and Principles.

The United States' ability to compete globally in science and technology is on a "perilous path," said a new report delivered Sept. 23 on Capitol Hill to a bipartisan group of policymakers, industry leaders, and academics.

American students continue to perform poorly in math and science compared to their counterparts abroad, the report claims. Though the United States is still a leader in innovation and produces a disproportionate share of the world's wealth, other countries such as China are investing heavily in research and education and, according to the new report, threatening America's competitiveness.

"At a time when jobs are our foremost concern in the United States, keeping our brainpower advantage is a good way to keep new jobs coming," said Sen. Lamar Alexander R-Tenn.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/09/25/america-losing-science-brainpower-advantage/

YES, and the reason is that the lefty liberal greeny tree-hugging and/or conservation loving Teachers and Professors are emphasizing and teaching their “Junk Science” and “political agendas” on the aforesaid instead of teaching actual, factual Science and its associated Laws and Principles.

Part of the reason is because of idiots that make sweeping generalizations about the value of education, making others believe that it isn't worth it, increasing the rising swell of anti-intellectualism in this country.

You want us to respect YOUR college education, but you belittle that of everyone else (unless you happen to agree with them).

Typical, "...kids these days..." attitude. That makes you a curmudgeon, almost by definition.

I think going back to school as given me a unique perspective on this issue as I've gotten to know quite a few "educated" individuals teaching at both the University and Community College level and to be honest, across the board, I have not been impressed.

I was recently in a meeting with about 3 dozen students and 10 falculty members who were seated around the table at the front of the room. I've gotten to know each of the individuals to one extent or another and as I watched them interact, it occurred to me that in the real world, none of them would survive, a fact that is confirmed I believe by their various backgrounds. Of the 10, only one worked more then 5 years in the real world and his years of management experience was as a valet manager and then an office manager at a law firm.

Of the remaining 9, one worked as a sales rep for 5 years, 2 worked in state government and the rest have been in academia their entire careers. None of wrote or met a budget, dealt with real world problems or had to worry about theirs or others jobs as a result of their actions.

...increasing the rising swell of anti-intellectualism in this country.

I've also seen that sentiment prevalent and as I told one individual before dropping his class, I don't think it's disrespecting a college education as much as it is what one does with it. When one thinks they are better or "smarter" then another simply because they have an education, neither they nor their education deserve respect.

He then spouted the same anti-intellectualism tripe and as I told him, his multiple degrees make him better or smarter then another, it simply meant that he had more knowledge in an area of his choosing and that the perceived disrespect and dislike that he felt coming from individuals like me wasn’t because of his education, it was because he was a dick who thought he was smarter then everyone else that likely wouldn’t last 10 minutes in the real world.

He then spouted the same anti-intellectualism tripe and as I told him, his multiple degrees make him better or smarter then another, it simply meant that he had more knowledge in an area of his choosing and that the perceived disrespect and dislike that he felt coming from individuals like me wasn’t because of his education, it was because he was a dick who thought he was smarter then everyone else that likely wouldn’t last 10 minutes in the real world.

Funny stuff. Like the people that say their dislike of Obama isn't because of his race and then follow it up with a "fried chicken" joke. Aaron, your whole post WAS anti-intellectual, trashing the very institution that is educating you.

Your attitude implying that people that work in the universities and teach and do research that leads to innovation aren't and can't be in the "real world", along with government employees like food inspectors and extension agents and customs officials (and people in the military), is the essence of anti-intellectualism.

Also, you have an interesting definition of "real world"... .

You will be just like Sam, someone that will want their education and expertise acknowledged while trashing the system that allowed them to get it.

You don't see that behavior as somewhat paradoxical?

I'm not trashing the institutions TC. I merelyi commented on some of the instructors the institutions have hired. Why am I not suprised that you do not see the distinction between the two? And for the record, there are some very good instructors at the both institutions. The problem is, they happen to be in the minority.

I would be interested in what your explaination of my "interesting" defination of the real world is.

As for my education, it has been ongoing for 40+ years and will not stop just because I obtain a piece of paper from one institution or another. The paper part is merely a part of the game, one that I can play very well so I'm not trashing anything. I'm merely stating the facts as I see them, one that as a highly successful employee in the private sector for many years, I am qualified to make.

Education is a lot lot religion and politics. If we want to believe something, it is easy to get us to believe it- and all those who don't believe it are idiots and anti-intellectuals. And if we don't want to believe something, it is almost impossible to get us to believe it and those who try to teach it are all idiots and anti-intellectuals.

So go figure.

That makes absolutely no sense Ziggy. I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Contrary to what TC is trying to say, I am not bashing education or the need for one attending institutions of higher learning because it is needed in many cases. I am saying that a college degree is not the end all be all and that those like TC who believe it somehow makes them better and smarter then someone who does not have a degree is wrong.

I have no idea what OC's or Stephanie's level of education is but neither have any trouble in more then holding their own with multiple degreed individuals that I've met, particularly at the two institutions located at Institute. Many of the instructors that I'm met are somewhat lacking when it comes to real world abilities and in spite of Masters degrees, aren't good for much of anything beyond teaching except maybe working for the government. At least in my humble opinion.

Aaron wrote:That makes absolutely no sense Ziggy. I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Contrary to what TC is trying to say, I am not bashing education or the need for one attending institutions of higher learning because it is needed in many cases. I am saying that a college degree is not the end all be all and that those like TC who believe it somehow makes them better and smarter then someone who does not have a degree is wrong.

I have no idea what OC's or Stephanie's level of education is but neither have any trouble in more then holding their own with multiple degreed individuals that I've met, particularly at the two institutions located at Institute. Many of the instructors that I'm met are somewhat lacking when it comes to real world abilities and in spite of Masters degrees, aren't good for much of anything beyond teaching except maybe working for the government. At least in my humble opinion.

Your humble opinion is pretty accurate. I work for the railroads. I've seen every type of trainmaster, road forman, and yardmaster from an old hogheads that had a 6th grade education to those with MBAs. The best one came from those who had come up through the ranks. They knew how railroads worked and how to get things done. They also know how to talk to and treat those under them. They listened, they were fair, they corrected when necessary, they knew their job, and they were firm when they had to be. You don't learn any of that in a book or government school.

I don't have a degree, although I have taken a couple of classes. I still haven't figured out what I want to be when I grow up. I wish I were kidding.

You should continue to take classes Stephanie. The communty classes are really affordable and I'm sure you coulud get some money to go back. They're going to spend it on someone so it might as well be you as some kid who blows it on booze and pot or another kid from Ethopia. Besides, the educators can use more people like you to keep them honest. From where you are, you could either go to Kanawha Valley at Institute, there is one in Huntington, Rio Grande is in Ohio across from Point Pleasant or there is online classes. I know KVCTC offers several.

I have considered taking classes at UC. Hubby's employee benefit package includes free classes for employees and their dependents. I actually considered enrolling Loyd in school so I could do but I know ofseveral families that have decided to homeschool specifically because of the difficulties they have encountered in PC schoolos, and school in particular.

As far as students from other nations.....I don't begrudge them an education. It is unclear to me that they get any assistance from our state or federal government. I'll have to check into that. I know they are awarded scholarships, and talking it out I think perhaps they do get some federal assistance because I know they are awarded work studies and I believe those are government dollars.

I'm not sure which specific country she is from, but the RA in Katie's dorm is from Africa. Her name is Pam and Katie takes exception to her personal hygiene......the girl showers infrequently. I can't believe she did it but Katie actually spoke to her about it and Pam said they don't shower daily in her country and she isn't going to change her ways because she is in America. How do ya like that one?

I'm not sure how the Ethiopian's came to State but they have their very own association. I'm pretty sure it is paid for with American dollars because I've heard several comments about having to work while they attend for free. I was under the impression that it was either Americorps of Job Corps but I'm not sure. Americorps sounds about right as it is a program started by Bill Clinton and we all know he's big on Africa.

And I would have told the girl that if she didn't want to assimilate then perhaps she should reconsider her stay in this country.

And you should take classes at UC, even if it's a Friday, Saturday or evening class.

TerryRC wrote:YES, and the reason is that the lefty liberal greeny tree-hugging and/or conservation loving Teachers and Professors are emphasizing and teaching their “Junk Science” and “political agendas” on the aforesaid instead of teaching actual, factual Science and its associated Laws and Principles.

Part of the reason is because of idiots that make sweeping generalizations about the value of education, making others believe that it isn't worth it, increasing the rising swell of anti-intellectualism in this country.

Are these the idiots that delivered the report that you are refering to and/or including me in with them, to wit:

The United States' ability to compete globally in science and technology is on a "perilous path," said a new report delivered Sept. 23 on Capitol Hill to a bipartisan group of policymakers, industry leaders, and academics.

It is not "sweeping generalizations" to say that education in science and technology has been on a "perilous path" for quite some time now, ...... it is a blatant fact that it has been.

But it wasn't when I was being educated, nor for several years afterward. I was part of the "action" when the US was so far ahead there was very little competition to worry about.

TerryRC wrote:You want us to respect YOUR college education, but you belittle that of everyone else (unless you happen to agree with them).

NO, I don't want you to "respect my college education", ..... that is what your f'ing problem currently is. Only respecting those you deem appropiate based solely on the Title of the Degree they hold.

I want you to respect the knowledge I acquired from getting my college education, something that you have adamently refused to do.

Which, though amazing, is understandable by me, ...... given the fact that it is apparent to me that you acquired you knowledge after education was well on it's way down said "perilous path".

TerryRC wrote:Typical, "...kids these days..." attitude. That makes you a curmudgeon, almost by definition.

WHOOPEEEE, so I'm "a crusty irascible cantankerous old person full of stubborn ideas", HUH?

HA, me thinks that "perilous path" you followed led you right into the abyss of "Learned Ignorance", which, like stupidity, ........ can't easily be fixed.

And of course you would claim that I am "full of stubborn ideas", and that is because you are incapable of "thinking n' reasoning" and therefore my ideas will remain a mystery to you, ........ unless told otherwise by one of those who you deem appropiate to tell you.

.

I want you to respect the knowledge I acquired from getting my college education, something that you have adamently refused to do.

I "adamently" refuse to do so because you trash the knowledge I have earned. How many times have you sneered at what comes out of universities these days, including me.

Like the stars in the sky.

Why don't you lead by example, Sammy, instead of "...do as I say, not as I do..."?

If one is not deserving of respecte, why does the knowledge he possesses, regardless of how he obtained it, matter?

If one is not deserving of respecte, why does the knowledge he possesses, regardless of how he obtained it, matter?

So in what ways, not that I care, am I undeserving of respect?

I can't wait for the host of sins you are about to lay at my feet. I'm sure they will be honest and well-analyzed...

Who said anything about you? I ask a simple question that I can't help but not you didn't answer.

I'll ask it again. If one is not worthy of respect, then why should another respcet their knowledge regardless of how they obtained it?

I'll ask it again. If one is not worthy of respect, then why should another respcet their knowledge regardless of how they obtained it?

Because you can still learn things from assholes. I do all of the time.

When one stops learning, they stop living. It's not confined to a classroom. That doesn't equate to respect for the individual. I've met a lot of very smart people that deserve no respect whatsoever and a whale of a lot more lesser educated individuals that command respect.

That doesn't equate to respect for the individual.

Nor were we discussing that. We were speaking of respect for the knowledge they might have.

To which I ask, why I should respect the knowledge one has if they as a person are not respectable. You're the one that got all narcissistic and tried to muddy my question.

TerryRC wrote: I "adamently" refuse to do so because you trash the knowledge I have earned. How many times have you sneered at what comes out of universities these days, including me.

Well, "DUH", iffen what you earned/learned is "trash" then why shouldn't I trash it?

If your kids come dragging home a load of trash do you brag about it and tell them they did a fine job?

TerryRC wrote: Why don't you lead by example, Sammy, instead of "...do as I say, not as I do..."?

And just how is that going to clean out/up the "trash" that is in your mind?

To which I ask, why I should respect the knowledge one has if they as a person are not respectable. You're the one that got all narcissistic and tried to muddy my question.

No. I answered you straightforwardly. Just because someone is an ass doesn't mean that they don't have knowledge worth knowing.

I can't get anymore straightforward than that. Just because you don't get that doesn't mean you have to get high and mighty with me.

Well, "DUH", iffen what you earned/learned is "trash" then why shouldn't I trash it?

Another educated and brilliant response from our resident failed science teacher.

I said to you TC...

To which I ask, why I should respect the knowledge one has if they as a person are not respectable. You're the one that got all narcissistic and tried to muddy my question.[/i]

And you responded...

No. I answered you straightforwardly. Just because someone is an ass doesn't mean that they don't have knowledge worth knowing.

I can't get anymore straightforward than that. Just because you don't get that doesn't mean you have to get high and mighty with me.
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Which is completely opposite what you said to Sam when he stated he "I want you to respect the knowledge I acquired from getting my college education, something that you have adamently refused to do."

Your response to him...

I "adamently" refuse to do so because you trash the knowledge I have earned. How many times have you sneered at what comes out of universities these days, including me.
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We all know Sam is an ass but he's a very smart ass, likely the most intelligent poster on these forums, yet your refuse to respect him OR is knowledge. So why doesn't your own statement apply to yourself? It seems to me you're talking out both sides of your ass.

TerryRC wrote:Well, "DUH", iffen what you earned/learned is "trash" then why shouldn't I trash it?

Another educated and brilliant response from our resident failed science teacher.

Now that seems like a reasonable response one would expect from most any "trash collector".