Why the heck is school out today????

What is to clarify. I don't beleive education should be required after the 4th grade.

There you go. His words. But somehow, I'm the outrageous one.

No wonder the US is falling behind in technological and scientific fields.

TerryRC (Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:49 am) wrote:What is to clarify. I don't beleive education should be required after the 4th grade.

There you go. His words. But somehow, I'm the outrageous one.

No wonder the US is falling behind in technological and scientific fields.

However, it still is required and the US is still falling behind. You want some real reasons we are failing behind, I'll give them to you.

1. There is no discipline in the classroom anymore.

2. There is far too much reliance on computers to do the educating. A kid has no need for a computer until they have a grasp of the prinicples they are using the computer for. One needs to know the prinicples of math to be able to use a spread sheet. One needs to know grammer to produce a paper. You don't get those by using a computer, you get them by hands on practice.

3. There is far to much emphisis on sports. Sports are nice, but the puspose of school is to educate.

4. Most Parents don't give a damn anymore as long as junior is out of the way.

5. Society doesn't place the emphesis on education it once did.

6. Far to many groups on both sides of the spectrum want to use the school system as a indoctrination center.

7. School adminsitrators are generally a joke. That is the reason bad teachers get away with poor performance.

8. There is far to much politics in education.

and most importantly

9. Public education has a monoply. It doesnt' need to compete with private education, thanks to the teachers unions and politicians.

TerryRC (Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:49 am) wrote:What is to clarify. I don't beleive education should be required after the 4th grade.

There you go. His words. But somehow, I'm the outrageous one.

No wonder the US is falling behind in technological and scientific fields.

TerryRC,

I love ya, and it's good to see you here.

I don't believe education should be required after the 4th grade, either. And if you somehow think that THIS is the reason for our problems in technology and science then I have a bridge to sell you, and this is why. We spend more per pupil on education than any nation in western Europe, and keep our kids until they are 18, and pretty well pay for at least 2 years of schooling at the community college level, and we are not seeing results. The lame answer generally given for this unfortunate reality is the need for money. Donkey dumplings.

I don't believe education should be required after the 4th grade, either.

So then why require education to the 4th grade even? Why require it after the 3rd grade, or the 2nd- or at all?

I oppose compulsory education. I've stated that before.

TerryRC wrote:No wonder the US is falling behind in technological and scientific fields.

DUH, if compulsory education had anything at all to do with creating high school graduates with a good technological and/or scientific knowledge ........ then the US would be overflowing with said candidates trying to get enrolled in colleges and universities and also overflowing with Certified Teachers of said begging to be hired by a school system.

DUH, if compulsory education had anything at all to do with creating high school graduates with a good technological and/or scientific knowledge ........ then the US would be overflowing with said candidates trying to get enrolled in colleges and universities and also overflowing with Certified Teachers of said begging to be hired by a school system.

And letting them decide on continuing school after the fourth grade will solve this how?

I don't think the public schools are, on average, doing a great job. I also know that literacy rates are alot higher than in the days before there were public schools.

The system needs to be addressed, not eliminated.

The days before there were public schools? Yes, surely such a comparison is appropriate. Why, there was the internet, widespread publication of readers, sufficient evening light.......

The days before there were public schools? Yes, surely such a comparison is appropriate. Why, there was the internet, widespread publication of readers, sufficient evening light.......

And parents that were too poor to send their kids to private schools or thought that "they didn't need no book larnin'" and neither did their kids.

So, yes, the comparison IS appropriate.

TerryRC wrote:I don't think the public schools are, on average, doing a great job. I also know that literacy rates are alot higher than in the days before there were public schools.

The system needs to be addressed, not eliminated.

The thing is, literacy rates have not significantly increased over the last 100 years, improving by less then 2% of the population while educational expenses have increased by billions. And when you add that the number of high school graduates who can read and write with proficiency on an 8th grade level has actually decreased as compulsory attendance laws have gotten tougher, it’s clear to all but the most partisan, the system is broke and those type of laws simply do not work.

There are other key factors Terry is conveniently leaving out when he discusses literacy rates. The big gains came not from compulsory attendance. The big gains came from abolition of laws the prevented the education of blacks and descrimination against females.

TerryRC wrote: And letting them decide on continuing school after the fourth grade will solve this how?.

What the f--- are you talking about now?

Are you snowed in by the weather and spaced out by the wacky tobacca ..... and have a great trip even though you are not going anywhere?

Or what?

What the f--- are you talking about now?

Are you snowed in by the weather and spaced out by the wacky tobacca ..... and have a great trip even though you are not going anywhere?

Or what?

Sam, just read the thread. I was referring to Willy saying that school attendance shouldn't be mandatory after the fourth grade.

If you can't keep up with the thread, keep your mouth shut. That way you won't need to make personal attacks to feel that you are part of things.

Or, perhaps you are just drunk.

I know what Willy was talking about ........ so quit trying to find fault with and/or blaming Willy for the comment you posted ........ and just explain .....

what the f--- you were talking about?

Or should I really be asking: .... What part of "you" do you not understand?

I know what Willy was talking about ........ so quit trying to find fault with and/or blaming Willy for the comment you posted ........ and just explain .....

what the f--- you were talking about?

Or should I really be asking: .... What part of "you" do you not understand?

I was bringing the conversation back to the "no mandatory school after fourth grade" chain of discussion.

Isn't it a little early for you to be drinking?

I'm curious Terry, there are two very valid points about literacy rates that you chose to ignore. Any particular reason?

For the record, while I can't speak conclusively for Stephanie, I for one am not advocating the end of public schools as I understand that we as a society benefit from educating our youth. I just don't believe we need to be enforcing mandatory attendance until 17 years old when it is clear there are students who do not want to be there. I've said I would be comfortable with ending compulsory attendance after the 8th grade.

I ask you on November 7th, at 1:01 pm...

Aaron wrote:At what age should compulsory attendance end?

...to which you've never answered so I'll ask again. At what age should compulsory attendance end for children?

I've never wanted to eliminate public schools. I seek to eliminate government intrusion and force and the dumbing down of America. Why are so many people fearful of liberty?

I'm just demanding freedom and more options. Look, over the course of my lifetime (46+ yrs) innumerable fads have come and gone and come again in public education. I distinctly remember Sasha mentioning one in particular, perhaps "whole language reading", and how disasterous it was. That was the technique du jour and countless American school children and their families were forced to endure that fad and not only did they suffer for it, many continue and will continue to struggle as a result of the whims of the educrats who rammed that down America's gullet.

The only way to improve our schools is to force teachers and schools to compete. In the 20 years I've been advocating school choice classes have grown smaller and children enter the system younger and there are more specialists and the curricula has been overhauled multiple times and teachers receive more professional development and techniques have been tweaked and technological advances have swept classrooms from coast to coast and graduation requirments have increased and............things haven't improved in any signifcant way. In some ways they've gotten worse, much worse.

In the back of my mind I have always thought Loyd would go to high school just as his older brothers and sisters did. (I hs'd Katie 9th grade) Now, however, the age of compusory attendance has been raised in WV to age 17. What a moronic move that was. Now, should I send Loyd to public school, there will be an even larger number of students who don't want to be. They will be older and likely more trouble than before and forcing them to be physically present is a waste of resources and they will only disrupt things for other students.

Compulsory attendence will not improve public schools. Competition will.

TerryRC wrote:I know what Willy was talking about ........ so quit trying to find fault with and/or blaming Willy for the comment you posted ........ and just explain .....

what the f--- you were talking about?

Or should I really be asking: .... What part of "you" do you not understand?

I was bringing the conversation back to the "no mandatory school after fourth grade" chain of discussion.

Well, I see that you have taken your "Jell-O position" ...... again, ........ so I will cease with any more attempts at "trying to nail you down" for an explanation of: "what the f--- you were talking about?"

Hey y'all,

If'nn we want to celebrate the failures of public education and the problem of obesity in person, I will be in Teays Valley and buying biscuits and gravy on either January 4th or 5th.

Count me in.

I'm there!

oustanding!

My last semester in college was indicative of the difference between quantity time and quality time. I missed the first two weeks as I was in Spain, and then went on to have the second highest semester (after my first semester Freshamn year) despite my absences.

Kids, teens, and young adults are best placed in learning environments that are fluid and take into account the students' individual learning styles, nutritional and stimulative needs, and what not. A class of 30 students simply cannot tailor adequately to the needs of the individual student; most of the learning prep, if not the learning itself, must come from elsewhere.

Perhaps if we weren't spending the hundreds of millions of dollars we are to run highschools and babyset so many teenagers, we as a nation could afford to direct more of our resources at smaller classrooms and more direct teaching.

Here, here!