Pro-abortion arguments refuted:

by Keli Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:59 pm

To the Editor:

Pro-abortion arguments are easily refuted:
"Abortion isn’t killing. A fetus isn’t alive, it’s just tissue." Yet, how can something that’s growing not be alive? Aren't we all just tissue?
"A fetus isn’t human." What is it? A dog? A fish? A rutabaga? If a being has human parents, isn’t it human?
"It’s just a part of the woman’s body." If that’s true then pregnant women have two brains, two hearts, 20 fingers and toes, two blood types, two sets of DNA, and a penis half the time!
"My body, my choice!" What about the child’s body and his or her choice?
"We shouldn’t force our morality on other people." Isn’t a mother who aborts her child forcing her morality on her child?
"Abortion is a private decision between a woman and her doctor." If a woman privately hires a doctor to kill her born child, should we interfere?
"What about children who will have terrible lives or live in poverty?" Do we need to kill them to save them from poverty or problems?
"Abortion is legal." So was slavery. What is legal isn’t always right.
"Do you want women to die in dangerous 'back-alley' abortions?" No, the death of the mother would be just as tragic as the death of the child. Can’t we have a world where neither dies?
"Pro-lifers are fanatics that bomb clinics, shoot abortion doctors and break the law!" Why do you think Pro-lifers do those things? I am Pro-life and do not do or advocate those things. However, I am glad that you agree that it’s terrible when people harm those that they consider “unwanted.” That’s why I oppose abortion!

Pastor Terry K. Hagedorn
Calvary Baptist Church
PO Box 282 Reedsville, WV
Ph. 304-864-3870

http://mountainmanna.com

"Pointing Mountaineers to Mount Calvary."

by SamCogar Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:10 am

Was that a "YES" for reversing Rove v. Wade?

by **Stephanie** Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:38 am

What a disgrace Roe v. Wade is.

The reverend and I should discuss strategies to reduce the number of abortions and how to go about making abortion a crime in this country. It is our common ground.

by TerryRC Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:40 am

The reverend and I should discuss strategies to reduce the number of abortions and how to go about making abortion a crime in this country. It is our common ground.

I think most would consider it a crime to force someone to use their body in a manner against their wishes.

by SamCogar Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:25 am

Overpopulation is the root cause of pollution and other environmental menaces ravaging the biosphere. Economic concerns also loom.

National Geographic warns that regions of the world will become hellish -- "some parts of it are hellish today" -- without major action.

More birth control, more sterilization -- plus more education and prosperity -- these are urgently needed to halt humanity's lemminglike rush toward misery.

http://www.wvgazette.com/Opinion/Editorials/201101071118

by Keli Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:21 am

SamCogar wrote:
Overpopulation is the root cause of pollution and other environmental menaces ravaging the biosphere. Economic concerns also loom.

National Geographic warns that regions of the world will become hellish -- "some parts of it are hellish today" -- without major action.

More birth control, more sterilization -- plus more education and prosperity -- these are urgently needed to halt humanity's lemminglike rush toward misery.

http://www.wvgazette.com/Opinion/Editorials/201101071118

Do you recommend euthanasia to help alleviate overpopulation? Have you considered it?

by **Stephanie** Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:25 am

"My body, my choice!" What about the child’s body and his or her choice?

by **SheikBen** Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:25 am

Abortion is legal and even subsidized in many parts of the world, and yet overpopulation has not abated.

I agree that birth control is a very good step, including sterilization. Perhaps Planned Parenthood can offer money from donations to pay for women and men to get sterilizations rather than abortions.

You just do not have to kill children to keep the population down. There are much better ways.

by **SheikBen** Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:27 am

Incidentally, a vasectomy is morally neutral for 95% of the country, permanent, and done on the male who is generally the more sexually needy in the first place. Abortion is a woman's rights issue? Hardly. the "sperm donor" isn't left with any consequences, emotional or physical, and goes right on doing what he's done, to other women who, in the name of "woman's rights", will abort their children as well. Of course, some women will simply have the man's children, so his seed will spread alongside the deaths of his innocent progeny.

Women's rights, indeed.

by ziggy Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:45 pm

SheikBen wrote:Incidentally, a vasectomy is morally neutral for 95% of the country, permanent, and done on the male who is generally the more sexually needy in the first place.

One wonders why female sterilization is not so morally neutral.

by SamCogar Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:07 pm

Pennyroyal - women have been making tea with it long before the Gospels or the Bible was written.

This species of Mint, a native of most parts of Europe and parts of Asia, is the Pulegium of the Romans, so named by Pliny from its reputed power of driving away fleas - pulex being the Latin for flea, hence the Italian pulce and the French puce. This name given the plant in ancient times has been retained as its modern specific name. It is sometimes known to the country-people as 'Run by the Ground' and 'Lurk in the Ditch,' from its manner of growth.

It was formerly much used in medicine, the name Pennyroyal being a corruption of the old herbalists' name 'Pulioll-royall' (Pulegium regium), which we meet also in the Middle Ages as 'Piliole-rial.' It has been known to botanists since the time of Linnaeus as Mentha Pulegium. http://botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/p/pennyr23.html

So, iffen ya got a little problem ya need to take care of, find this pretty weed, which grows just about everywhere, and make yourself a cup of tea.

Pro-abortion arguments refuted: Mentha_pulegium

Pro-abortion arguments refuted: Mentha_pulegium

Pennyroyal is a well-known abortificant which causes the uterine muscles to contract, it is said to be very effective and is sometimes combined with Blue Cohosh, or mugwort. It is believed to be most effective as tea, drunk while hot. Either the fresh or dried herb can be used, some think a tea made from the fresh herb may be more effective, but at this time there is not enough information available to make a determination of which is better, if you purchase herbs of good quality it may not make any difference.

During American colonial times a tablespoon of brewers yeast was frequently added to a freshly brewed cup of pennyroyal tea to induce abortion. This combination is mentioned in King's American Dispensatory in the late 1800's, as "reputed to be a safe and effective abortifacient".
http://www.sisterzeus.com/Pennyroyal.htm

by **SheikBen** Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:02 pm

ziggy wrote:
SheikBen wrote:Incidentally, a vasectomy is morally neutral for 95% of the country, permanent, and done on the male who is generally the more sexually needy in the first place.

One wonders why female sterilization is not so morally neutral.

ziggy,

I reckon a tubal ligation is just as morally neutral for the great bulk of the country, it surely is for me.

by Keli Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:39 am

SamCogar wrote:Pennyroyal - women have been making tea with it long before the Gospels or the Bible was written.

This species of Mint, a native of most parts of Europe and parts of Asia, is the Pulegium of the Romans, so named by Pliny from its reputed power of driving away fleas - pulex being the Latin for flea, hence the Italian pulce and the French puce. This name given the plant in ancient times has been retained as its modern specific name. It is sometimes known to the country-people as 'Run by the Ground' and 'Lurk in the Ditch,' from its manner of growth.

It was formerly much used in medicine, the name Pennyroyal being a corruption of the old herbalists' name 'Pulioll-royall' (Pulegium regium), which we meet also in the Middle Ages as 'Piliole-rial.' It has been known to botanists since the time of Linnaeus as Mentha Pulegium. http://botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/p/pennyr23.html

So, iffen ya got a little problem ya need to take care of, find this pretty weed, which grows just about everywhere, and make yourself a cup of tea.

Dr. Sam Cogarvorkian, here is something for you to consider before practicing medicine:

Lifestyle on Trial
World Beater: Kris Humphrey's passion for self-determination and fear of the medical establishment led her to a fatal experiment with an herbal abortifacient.

A vegetarian who used medicinal herbs to treat minor ailments, Kris Humphrey opted for a "natural" abortion. Relying on friends' advice and information she gleaned from books on herbal remedies, she began drinking tea mixed with pennyroyal extract and black cohosh root, two herbs readily available at most health-food stores and well known in homeopathic medicine.

It was hardly a novel approach to terminating a pregnancy. The Greek dramatist Aristophanes identified pennyroyal as an abortifacient as far back as 421 B.C.E., and many women with even a passing familiarity with herbs know about the method. Although the Roe v. Wade decision gave women a safer legal option, pennyroyal is still used to terminate pregnancy by some women knowledgeable about medicinal herbs.

"I've tried it more than once and been successful," confides a friend whom Kris consulted about ending the pregnancy and who directed her to Susun Weed's book Wise Woman Herbal for the Childbearing Year. "Kris asked me what I had done and I explained it to her. I told her to follow the recipe in the book. She was really desperate not to have a child, but she wanted to handle things herself without going to a doctor. Having control over her own body and her own reproductive cycle is something she desired."

Kris probably mistook the warning signs of her ectopic pregnancy--abdominal pain and cramping--as an indication that the pennyroyal tea was working.

"She probably assumed the pennyroyal was doing its job," speculates the friend who offered Kris guidance. "We didn't think anything was wrong with her. And I don't think she did either."

After Kris died, a hospital social worker suggested that Mike Humphrey take legal action. Humphrey knew who to call. Personal injury attorney Allen Fleishman had won an out-of-court settlement from the city of San Jose after Danny died.

Fleishman wasted little time. Kris had been dead for less than a week when he filed suit on behalf of Michael Humphrey and Embee Humphrey--who joined the suit with her former husband--charging Massachusetts-based Gaia Herbs, the pennyroyal manufacturer, and Bread of Life, the Campbell store where Kris allegedly purchased the herbs, with negligence, product liability and wrongful death. In addition to unspecified damages, the suit demands warning labels on pennyroyal cautioning pregnant women not to use the product.

"I hope the lawsuit will send a message to herb manufacturers and health-food stores," says Mike Humphrey, who scoured Peninsula health-food stores after Kris died to gauge the popularity of pennyroyal. Before visiting his daughter in the hospital, he had never heard of the herb. "Pennyroyal isn't the harmless, natural, alternative medicine that people might think."

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/12.14.95/pennyroyal-9550.html

by SamCogar Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:15 pm

the suit demands warning labels on pennyroyal cautioning pregnant women not to use the product

TH, maybe you could sue the grocery stores there in Flotsam and Belch because there is no warning lables on the Peanut Butter jars warning peanutbutter intolerent people not to eat it.

You could probably collect enough moola to refurbish your church that would be befitting of your ministery.

by **ohio county** Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:22 pm

I think most would consider it a crime to force someone to use their body in a manner against their wishes.

If you can ignore the fact that we know what causes pregnancies... Of course, if women have no recourse against males who wish to use their bodies as sites for masturbation, I guess your argument holds water.

by TerryRC Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:33 am

Incidentally, a vasectomy is morally neutral for 95% of the country, permanent, and done on the male who is generally the more sexually needy in the first place.

It is a big sin for catholics, christian scientists and jehovah's witnesses.

I'm pretty sure they account for more than 5% of the county.

Not that that is even relevant, so carry on.

by TerryRC Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:37 am

If you can ignore the fact that we know what causes pregnancies... Of course, if women have no recourse against males who wish to use their bodies as sites for masturbation, I guess your argument holds water.

????????

My wife and I have had two kids while using birth control. It does fail sometimes. We wanted kids. If my wife didn't want kids, should I have forced her to?

How about cases of rape or incest? On average, a rape happens ever seven minutes in the US.

Perhaps the fed should have held a gun to her head and forced her to?

Forcing someone to have a baby, for any reason, that they do not want is good old fashioned sexual slavery, no matter how you try and paint it.

by **Stephanie** Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:42 am

Oh man am I tired of hearing the rape or incest crap. That's not an excuse for abortion on demand.

In any event, a nice Catholic can go and have a vasectomy, or tubal ligation for that matter. No problemo, Terry. I was a practicing Catholic when my ex had his with my encouragement! I went to confession, told the priest about the vasectomy and his response to me was, "a far graver sin would be to have children you wouldn't, or couldn't, properly care for". I think I got a couple of Hail Mary's.

by SamCogar Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:32 am

Pro-abortion arguments refuted:

by **Stephanie** Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:17 am

How are starving children in an overpopulated, third world nation justification for abortion in America, Sam?

by **SheikBen** Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:24 pm

TerryRC wrote:Incidentally, a vasectomy is morally neutral for 95% of the country, permanent, and done on the male who is generally the more sexually needy in the first place.

It is a big sin for catholics, christian scientists and jehovah's witnesses.

I'm pretty sure they account for more than 5% of the county.

Not that that is even relevant, so carry on.

TerryRC,

Fascinating tactic. You say something only to say that it's not relevant. So if I answer, I am chasing shadows, but if I don't, your statement goes uncontested.

I don't know that it is a 'big sin' for the vast majority of Catholics. Quite the contrary. Consider Catholics in Congress; outside of Rick Santorum, who is no longer there, and Michelle Bachman, where are the large families?

by SamCogar Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:23 pm

How are starving children in an overpopulated, third world nation justification for abortion in America, Sam?

Because of this, to wit:

US National Debt ………………………………........ $13.66 trillion
US 2010 Unfunded Liabilities: Estimated $60 to $100+ trillion

US nationwide pension debt ……………………… $3+ trillion

West Virginia estimated unfunded liabilities ……. $16 to $24 billion
WV Population, ….. 2009 estimate ……………………...… 1,819,777
WV Persons under 18 years old, ….. 2009 …….. 21.2% …… 385,793

WV Public School Enrollment 2000-2001 …………….……. 285,785
WV: hungry kids - Free Lunch Eligible ……… 38% ……...... 108,989

You're looking at the Future of America in the above faces, Stephanie.

.

by TerryRC Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:15 am

I don't know that it is a 'big sin' for the vast majority of Catholics. Quite the contrary. Consider Catholics in Congress; outside of Rick Santorum, who is no longer there, and Michelle Bachman, where are the large families?

Nevertheless, talk to the local parish priest.

by **Stephanie** Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:43 pm

I'm telling you I did talk to the local parish priest. Mind you, this was nearly 20 years ago. Certainly if the local priest was that open minded about the situation 20 years ago, things can't be as bleak as you would have us believe.

by TerryRC Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:08 am

I'm telling you I did talk to the local parish priest. Mind you, this was nearly 20 years ago. Certainly if the local priest was that open minded about the situation 20 years ago, things can't be as bleak as you would have us believe.

Bull, Steph. The official stance (at least up to a few years ago) of the roman catholic church is that the ONLY acceptable form of birth control is the rhythm method or interruptus.

Surgery is a big no no. Even getting a tattoo is a venial sin.

If your priest was "open-minded", he was not toeing the party line.

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