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Takes how many legislators to change a light bulb?

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Post by Ich bin Ala-awkbarph Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:58 am

Bachmann is pro-choice on bulbs [sponsors "Light Bulb Freedom of Choice Act"]
Minneapolis Star Tribune ^ | March 25, 2008 | KEVIN DIAZ


How many members of Congress does it take to change a light bulb? Americans may soon find out, courtesy of a contrarian piece of legislation introduced this month by Rep. Michele Bachmann of Minnesota.

Titled the "Light Bulb Freedom of Choice Act," the bill seeks to repeal the nationwide phase-out of conventional light bulbs, the kind that have been used for more than a century -- pretty much since the invention of the incandescent light bulb.

Bachmann, a first-term Republican, is challenging the nation's embrace of energy-efficient compact fluorescent lights, saying the government has no business telling consumers what kind of light bulbs they can buy.

"This is an issue of science over fads and fashions," Bachmann said in an interview Tuesday.

"Congress tends to jump on whatever the current buzz is in the 24-hour news cycle, " Bachmann said.

Her bill, the first challenge of its kind, raises safety questions about the small amounts of mercury in fluorescent lights. It also lands her squarely in the middle of the debate over global warming. In recent remarks to a gathering of Sherburne County Republicans -- reported in the West Sherburne Tribune -- Bachmann called any human connection to global warming "voodoo, nonsense, hokum, a hoax."

"By 2012, incandescent light bulbs will be no more," Bachmann said. "Fluorescent bulbs are more polluting because of their mercury content. We are working on a light bulb bill. If the Democrats can hose up a light bulb, don't trust them with the country."

(Excerpt) Read more at startribune.com ...
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Post by ziggy Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:53 am

Which is more polluting:

The small amount of mercury, disposed of in one place, associated with disposal of no longer serviceable fluorescent light bulbs, or-

the increased and widespread dispersal of mercury via combustion of more coal due to higher energy requirements of traditional "hot filament" incandescent light bulbs?
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Post by Ich bin Ala-awkbarph Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:30 pm

ziggy wrote:Which is more polluting:

The small amount of mercury, disposed of in one place, associated with disposal of no longer serviceable fluorescent light bulbs, or-

the increased and widespread dispersal of mercury via combustion of more coal due to higher energy requirements of traditional "hot filament" incandescent light bulbs?

I hear green-weenies cry more about mercury levels than incandescent bulbs in the ground water supply. Are you saying that increased levels of mercury is a good thing?
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Post by Aaron Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:08 pm

Thank you GWB for your environmental leadership in reducing this toxic emission.

On March 15, 2005, EPA issued the first-ever federal rule to permanently cap and reduce mercury emissions from coal-fired power plants. This rule makes the United States the first country in the world to regulate mercury emissions from coal-fired power plants.

The Clean Air Mercury Rule will build on EPA’s Clean Air Interstate Rule (CAIR) to significantly reduce emissions from coal-fired power plants -- the largest remaining sources of mercury emissions in the country. When fully implemented, these rules will reduce utility emissions of mercury from 48 tons a year to 15 tons, a reduction of nearly 70 percent.
source

Of course we could eliminate all mercury emissions simply by shutting down all coal fired power plants and converting to the abundant wind and solar power currently available...

I'll post the link that details that source just as soon as I find it...
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Post by ziggy Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:57 pm

Armon Ayers wrote:
ziggy wrote:Which is more polluting:

The small amount of mercury, disposed of in one place, associated with disposal of no longer serviceable fluorescent light bulbs, or-

the increased and widespread dispersal of mercury via combustion of more coal due to higher energy requirements of traditional "hot filament" incandescent light bulbs?

I hear green-weenies cry more about mercury levels than incandescent bulbs in the ground water supply.

If you don't know the answer, why don't you just say so?
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Post by SheikBen Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:15 pm

I think Bachmann's point is that if we have the freedom of choice to kill our children, than at the very least we should be able to choose what kind of light bulb to have.

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Post by Aaron Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:16 pm

ziggy wrote:Which is more polluting:

The small amount of mercury, disposed of in one place, associated with disposal of no longer serviceable fluorescent light bulbs, or-

the increased and widespread dispersal of mercury via combustion of more coal due to higher energy requirements of traditional "hot filament" incandescent light bulbs?

Who says that all "no longer serviceable fluorescent light bulbs" are disposed of in one location? And how many of these lights will be disposed of each year. And what measures are in place to ensure they are disposed of properly?
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Post by ziggy Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:05 pm

Aaron wrote:
ziggy wrote:Which is more polluting:

The small amount of mercury, disposed of in one place, associated with disposal of no longer serviceable fluorescent light bulbs, or-

the increased and widespread dispersal of mercury via combustion of more coal due to higher energy requirements of traditional "hot filament" incandescent light bulbs?

Who says that all "no longer serviceable fluorescent light bulbs" are disposed of in one location? And how many of these lights will be disposed of each year. And what measures are in place to ensure they are disposed of properly?

Now that is a good answer to my question. Thank you. Answering questions with more questions promotes more thinking (usually). And more thinking is almost always good.

And I do not know the answers to the three questions you pose. But I will work on it.

What measures are in place to ensure that mercury released by coal combustion is disposed of properly?
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Post by SamCogar Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:09 am

ziggy wrote:What measures are in place to ensure that mercury released by coal combustion is disposed of properly?

Well "DUH", just what do you think they are going to do with this:

When fully implemented, these rules will reduce utility emissions of mercury from 48 tons a year to 15 tons, a reduction of nearly 70 percent.


They will be using that 33 tons per year of captured mercury to make those newly mandated lightbulbs. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad


According to
Facts about Mercury & Fluorescent Lighting

One teaspoon of mercury can contaminate a 20 acre lake forever.

The EPA reports that 187 incinerators nationwide emit approximately 70,000 pounds of mercury into the environment each year.

Each year, an estimated 600 million fluorescent lamps are disposed of in US landfills amounting to 30,000 pounds of mercury waste.

www.lightbulbrecycling.com

each year an estimated 600 million fluorescent lamps are disposed of in U.S. landfills, amounting to 30,000 pounds of mercury waste. Astonishingly, that's almost half the amount of mercury emitted into the atmosphere by coal-fired power plants each year. It only takes 4mg of mercury to contaminate up to 7,000 gallons of freshwater, meaning that the 30,000 pounds of mercury thrown away in compact fluorescent light bulbs each year is enough to pollute nearly every lake, pond, river and stream in North America (not to mention the oceans). http://www.commoncraft.com/cfl

And remember, those 600 million fluorescent lamps they speak of are the 4' and 8' fluorescent bulbs that are currently being disposed of by commercial entities: stores, schools, factories, offices, etc.

So now, if the citizenry has to convert to the small fluorescent bulbs, ......... how many will they be disposing with each year.

Thus, the above "totals" have to be increased accordingly.

geek geek geek


.

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Post by Aaron Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:57 am

ziggy wrote:
Aaron wrote:
ziggy wrote:Which is more polluting:

The small amount of mercury, disposed of in one place, associated with disposal of no longer serviceable fluorescent light bulbs, or-

the increased and widespread dispersal of mercury via combustion of more coal due to higher energy requirements of traditional "hot filament" incandescent light bulbs?

Who says that all "no longer serviceable fluorescent light bulbs" are disposed of in one location? And how many of these lights will be disposed of each year. And what measures are in place to ensure they are disposed of properly?

Now that is a good answer to my question. Thank you. Answering questions with more questions promotes more thinking (usually). And more thinking is almost always good.

And I do not know the answers to the three questions you pose. But I will work on it.

What measures are in place to ensure that mercury released by coal combustion is disposed of properly?

The EPA is at Amos almost daily. Doing what, I do not know but there is an aqquaintance of mine that works for the EPA and they have pretty much given him his own office down there. I would presume that Mercury, including the proper disposal of any captured, would fall under is guidance. I'll ask him and see what he says.
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Post by SheikBen Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:12 am

Off the subject, but I really don't care for the EPA.

Didn't the WVEPA have an office in Nitro for awhile?

A former professional acquaintence of mine works for the EPA in Chicago and told me that it's incredible how many of them drive to work in very fuel inefficient, polluting vehicles. The head of the public transit in LA used to go to work in a Hummer.

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Post by Stephanie Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:19 am

This lightbulb thread reminds me of an incident I witnessed about 9 years ago. When my husband first moved to southern NE he lived in an apartment building that housed a chiropractor's office on the first floor. One day I was out on the balcony and saw the chiropractor "disposing" flourescent lights in the building's dumpster. They wouldn't fit in the dumpster so this dope was smashing them on the edge of the dumpster!

Now I'm up on a 3rd floor balcony and I yell down to him to knock it off, that was dangerous. He yelled up at me to mind my own damn business and continued smashing the damn things.

You can't stop stupid people from being stupid. I wonder how many more people will be smashing those lights prior to disposing of them if the government forces us all to use them!
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Post by Aaron Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:29 am

If the government is going to mandate these things, they need to mandate shatterproof glass. Of course we'll be paying $30 or more for a simple light but that's just part of government mandates.
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Post by ziggy Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:46 am

SheikBen wrote:Off the subject, but I really don't care for the EPA.

Why not? What entity would you suggest to coordinate environmental knowledge, education, regulation, etc.? The U.S. Chamber of Commerce?

Didn't the WVEPA have an office in Nitro for awhile?

Yes. WV DEP's central offices were in Nitro, with some sections of that agency in various buildings up and down the Kanawaha Valley. That agency's central offices are now at a new building at Kanawha City.

The head of the public transit in LA used to go to work in a Hummer

Probably because the public transit system had lousy service!
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Post by SheikBen Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:39 pm

Ziggy,

You don't get the humor of the EPA setting up shop in Nitro (where I lived and loved)? My coworkers called it "stinkyville"

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Post by SamCogar Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:53 am

Stephanie wrote:This lightbulb thread reminds me of an incident I witnessed about 9 years ago. When my husband first moved to southern NE he lived in an apartment building that housed a chiropractor's office on the first floor. One day I was out on the balcony and saw the chiropractor "disposing" flourescent lights in the building's dumpster. They wouldn't fit in the dumpster so this dope was smashing them on the edge of the dumpster!

Now I'm up on a 3rd floor balcony and I yell down to him to knock it off, that was dangerous. He yelled up at me to mind my own damn business and continued smashing the damn things.

You can't stop stupid people from being stupid. I wonder how many more people will be smashing those lights prior to disposing of them if the government forces us all to use them!

YES, that was dangerous.

He should have purchased one of those little "motorized" trash bins which had a lid with a 3" diameter hole in it ........ which works just like a "paper shredder" and can dispose of 2', 4' or 8' fluorescent light bulbs.

Just insert one end of the fluorescent tube into the hole ....... and "let er go".

BRRRRRREEEEEEZZZZZZZTTTTTTT, ....... and it eats it right up.

.

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Post by Ich bin Ala-awkbarph Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:20 am

Stephanie wrote:This lightbulb thread reminds me of an incident I witnessed about 9 years ago. When my husband first moved to southern NE he lived in an apartment building that housed a chiropractor's office on the first floor. One day I was out on the balcony and saw the chiropractor "disposing" flourescent lights in the building's dumpster. They wouldn't fit in the dumpster so this dope was smashing them on the edge of the dumpster!

Now I'm up on a 3rd floor balcony and I yell down to him to knock it off, that was dangerous. He yelled up at me to mind my own damn business and continued smashing the damn things.

You can't stop stupid people from being stupid. I wonder how many more people will be smashing those lights prior to disposing of them if the government forces us all to use them!

Stephanie,
That is why we will have to the GoreBulb Disposal Team/Police. You will have to pay for a person in a spacesuit come and take away the bulbs. Also, it is why there will be a twenty dollar deposit placed on each and every bulb--so that people will not be smashing them in the dumpster--but, rather, gladly getting their depoist back...
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