A “Test” of their Yellow Badge of Courage

SheikBen wrote:I do not think that either Hillary or Obama have the courage to actually stand up for their convictions on Iraq, if even those convictions truly exist. SOURCE

Well now, we will see, if their "Badge of Courage" is red or yellow,

after they ponder this for awhile, to wit:

WASHINGTON - There is no end in sight for the U.S. military occupation of Iraq and a quick exit would risk "massive chaos and even genocide," a U.S. think tank said in a report released on Sunday.

The report by the Institute of Peace comes two days before U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker and top commander Gen. David Petraeus are due to deliver testimony to the Congress on progress in the Iraq, now entering its sixth year.

"The U.S. is no closer to being able to leave Iraq than it was a year ago," said the report, written by experts who advised a high-profile Iraq policy panel convened by Congress in 2006. "Lasting political development could take five to ten years of full, unconditional U.S. commitment to Iraq."

The report warned that a fast exit from Iraq "risks a complete failure of the Iraqi state, massive chaos and even genocide."

A White House spokesman was not immediately available to comment on the report.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23985124/

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Five years ago, Donnie Rumsfeld told us "6 days, maybe 6 weeks, surely not 6 months".

Now these guys are sayin' up to ten more years. And McCain says he would be OK with 100 years.

Same old same old.

Ziggy,

Do you know what "hyperbole" is?

Sam,

Yup, and I have no doubt that a Clinton or an Obama presidency will have us remain in Iraq, with such reports being the justification, and NO ONE IS EVER GOING TO CHALLENGE THEM on failing to keep their campaign "promises."

SheikBen wrote:Ziggy,

Do you know what "hyperbole" is?

Yep. We conducted at least two wars on hyperbole- in Vietnam, and now in Iraq.

Monkey see, monkey do.

SheikBen wrote:Sam,

Yup, and I have no doubt that a Clinton or an Obama presidency will have us remain in Iraq, with such reports being the justification, and NO ONE IS EVER GOING TO CHALLENGE THEM on failing to keep their campaign "promises."

"Good show", Mike, I figured you would also see it as I did.

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ziggy wrote:Five years ago, Donnie Rumsfeld told us "6 days, maybe 6 weeks, surely not 6 months".

Now these guys are sayin' up to ten more years. And McCain says he would be OK with 100 years.

Same old same old.

"Sorry bout that" for our Military, Zigster, ....... but Rumsfeld sure didn't figure there were so many like you that were just waiting to "stab them in the back" after our Military was committed to "get er dun".

Zig, maybe that is why Bush ignored your all's blathering n' bitching and was not "gung ho" on rounding up "illegals" to send them back and to protect our border from more coming in.

Bush musta figured you would have "done the same thing", ....... siding with and defending the "illegals" with your mouths and your checkbooks.

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SamCogar wrote:

ziggy wrote:Five years ago, Donnie Rumsfeld told us "6 days, maybe 6 weeks, surely not 6 months".

Now these guys are sayin' up to ten more years. And McCain says he would be OK with 100 years.

Same old same old.

"Sorry bout that" for our Military, Zigster, ....... but Rumsfeld sure didn't figure there were so many like you that were just waiting to "stab them in the back" after our Military was committed to "get er dun".

Why didn't he? What did he think became of the young war protesters of the 1960s and early 1970s and their idealogical progeny? Lyndon Johnson, and now George Bush, stabbed all of America in the back with their b.s. warmongering. And so "My country, right or wrong", doesn't fly any more- because the "country" is too often "wrong", and not often enough "right".

Decisions to "commit the Military" are being made too hastily, too often, and based too much on unsubstianted hype and outright falsehoods.

The days of almost total blind allegiance to misguided leadership just because "our Military was committed" are over. Charges of "lack of patriotism" don't carry much social weight any more. So Sam, you can blow it out your other wazu.

You think anyone that doesn't agree with your copperhead ways Zig is wrong. Robert Gates was very critical of what wasn't working in Iraq and in spits of peaceniks, is attemting to make changes to win the war. it is a slow process that can't be accomplished overnight but his leadershop is trying. That doesn't stop your kind from doing everything in your power to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory. You're the type that would have left German after WW2 to the Soviets.

"Sorry bout that" for our Military, Zigster, ....... but Rumsfeld sure didn't figure there were so many like you that were just waiting to "stab them in the back" after our Military was committed to "get er dun".

Right. This is all Zig and Terry's fault.

Has nothing to do with the fact that the first troops were ripping off sheet metal to put on their unarmored transports because Rumsfeld wanted a "light footprint". It has nothing to do with KBR not providing proper supplies, housing and infrastructure for the troops (but still taking the money). Has nothing to do with private security firms like Blackwater shooting into crowds and REALLY INGRATIATING themselves to the Iraqi people.

This has been SNAFU from the beginning. Be an honest person and place the blame where it really belongs.

You're right TC, this has been woefully mismanaged from the get go. If we were going in, it should have been with 450K troops instead of 150K, they should have been adequately equipped and supplied and our military commanders should have had more say so in the planning instead of DOD and private citizen personnel.

If Congress is going to fund this war then they need to fund it, shut up and let the military run it. If they can't agree to that, then don't fund it.

One thing Congress needs to understand though is that it is NOT their place to manage the war.

TerryRC wrote:"Sorry bout that" for our Military, Zigster, ....... but Rumsfeld sure didn't figure there were so many like you that were just waiting to "stab them in the back" after our Military was committed to "get er dun".

Right. This is all Zig and Terry's fault.

Has nothing to do with the fact that the first troops were ripping off sheet metal to put on their unarmored transports because ...................................

because TRC, Ziggy and the other Bush Haters encouraged the insurgents and terrorists to start making IEDs and using Cell phones to detionate them when our Military was least expecting it.

Like I previously stated, neither Rumsfeld or our Military personnel EXPECTED you all to "join in with the insurgents and terrorists".

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SamCogar wrote:Like I previously stated, neither Rumsfeld or our Military personnel EXPECTED you all to "join in with the insurgents and terrorists".

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The "insurgenets and the terriorists" are forever beholden to George Bush for doing for them what they couldn't have done on their own- dislodge the former Iraqi government, giving them a whole new country from which to operate.

And that was done by GW Bush, not by TRC and Ziggy.

Just as pigs love to play in the mud, Islamic jihadists just love war- especially wars in which their antagonists' Commander-in-Chief doesn't have a clue about what the hell is going on. Bush's war in Iraq was "made" for Islamic terrorists- just as the Vietnam war was "made" for gorilla warriors.

Same old same old.

ziggy wrote:

SamCogar wrote:Like I previously stated, neither Rumsfeld or our Military personnel EXPECTED you all to "join in with the insurgents and terrorists".

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The "insurgenets and the terriorists" are forever beholden to George Bush for doing for them what they couldn't have done on their own- dislodge the former Iraqi government, giving them a whole new country from which to operate.

And that was done by GW Bush, not by TRC and Ziggy.

Just as pigs love to play in the mud, Islamic jihadists just love war- especially wars in which their antagonists' Commander-in-Chief doesn't have a clue about what the hell is going on. Bush's war in Iraq was "made" for Islamic terrorists- just as the Vietnam war was "made" for gorilla warriors.

Same old same old.

The same old same old is politicians, both sides of the ailse get us into war and then try to tie the hands of the military and keep them from doing their job.

Sherman would have never made it to Georgia is he had to deal with the garbage Gen. Petraeus does and we'd all be speaking German if FDR had to deal with a Congress like GWB does.

Aaron wrote:Sherman would have never made it to Georgia is he had to deal with the garbage Gen. Petraeus does and we'd all be speaking German if FDR had to deal with a Congress like GWB does.

The difference was that FDR was a smart as, at least, as Congress was. But Bush is just.... well, he is just Bush- who is president because God wanted him to be President.

ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:Sherman would have never made it to Georgia is he had to deal with the garbage Gen. Petraeus does and we'd all be speaking German if FDR had to deal with a Congress like GWB does.

The difference was that FDR was a smart as, at least, as Congress was. But Bush is just.... well, he is just Bush- who is president because God wanted him to be President.

It must of been God's intervention if someone as dumb as he supposedly is got elected President while someone as smart as you act can't even save the gigging pond..

Aaron wrote:Sherman would have never made it to Georgia is he had to deal with the garbage Gen. Petraeus does and we'd all be speaking German if FDR had to deal with a Congress like GWB does.

There is a lot of truth to that. One reason I don't bitch about operation Desert Shield / Desert Storm is that, whether or not it was a good endeaver, the then President Bush sent in enough troops and equipment to do what he set out to do, and without pussy-footing around trying to please all sides. He didn't take on an impossible task with an impossibly small contingent of troops. Too, Bush the 1st had Powell and Schwartzkauf (sp.?) running things, but all GW Bush had in Iraq was Cheney and Rumsfeld.

Aaron wrote:

ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:Sherman would have never made it to Georgia is he had to deal with the garbage Gen. Petraeus does and we'd all be speaking German if FDR had to deal with a Congress like GWB does.

The difference was that FDR was a smart as, at least, as Congress was. But Bush is just.... well, he is just Bush- who is president because God wanted him to be President.

It must of been God's intervention if someone as dumb as he supposedly is got elected President while someone as smart as you act can't even save the gigging pond..

I was twelve years old when the frog and fishing creek that ran through our property was ruined by acid water and siltation from strip mining.

But that you think it's all just a laughing matter speaks volumes- far more than your words. Without those cartoons you couldn't speak your own real mind at all. Sooner or later that freudian slip thingy will get you every time.

Come on, Ziggy......being 12 is no excuse. If this had happened in Aaron's neighborhood when he was 12 years old he would have put on his red cape with the matching tights and transformed into Super Redneck. He would have saved the creek, reconstructed the barn, and kicked that evil-doer's arse.

lmao

I really do wish those who support the continued occupation of Iraq and other nations would come up with some new material, btw. Being called anti-American, or terrorist sympathizers is getting old and boring.

ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:

ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:Sherman would have never made it to Georgia is he had to deal with the garbage Gen. Petraeus does and we'd all be speaking German if FDR had to deal with a Congress like GWB does.

The difference was that FDR was a smart as, at least, as Congress was. But Bush is just.... well, he is just Bush- who is president because God wanted him to be President.

It must of been God's intervention if someone as dumb as he supposedly is got elected President while someone as smart as you act can't even save the gigging pond..

I was twelve years old when the frog and fishing creek that ran through our property was ruined by acid water and siltation from strip mining.

But that you think it's all just a laughing matter speaks volumes- far more than your words. Without those cartoons you couldn't speak your own real mind at all. Sooner or later that freudian slip thingy will get you every time.

If I thought even a portion of your grand story were true I might think differently. As it is, I think Sam's got it pegged just about right. Your lying out your ass.

Stephanie wrote:Come on, Ziggy......being 12 is no excuse. If this had happened in Aaron's neighborhood when he was 12 years old he would have put on his red cape with the matching tights and transformed into Super Redneck. He would have saved the creek, reconstructed the barn, and kicked that evil-doer's arse.

lmao

I really do wish those who support the continued occupation of Iraq and other nations would come up with some new material, btw. Being called anti-American, or terrorist sympathizers is getting old and boring.

It was a black cape Stephanie.

So who's called you anti-American or a terrorist sympathizer?

ziggy wrote: Too, Bush the 1st had Powell and Schwartzkauf (sp.?) running things, but all GW Bush had in Iraq was Cheney and Rumsfeld.

As usual Zigster, you intentionally neglected to mention the "BIG DIFFERENCE" between the two Operations.

Bush the 1st, Powell and Schwartzkauf ....... did not require armor plating on their backsides to prevent being stabbed therein by you anti-war "Bush Haters", ...... nor did our Military require armor plating on their vehicles to prevent attacks from their sides and their rear by any "Bush Haters" encouraged terrorists and insurgents in Kuwait.

Bush the 1st, Powell, Schwartzkauf and our Military ....... did not require armor plating because all you "Bush Haters" did not arise and become organized until Al Gore lost the Election which was almost 10 years later.

But if you "Bush Haters" had become organized sooner I am positively sure that Bush the 1st, Powell, Schwartzkauf and our Military would have suffered the same fate as those conducting the Iraq War.

As I have stated previously, I see very little difference between the Bush Haters and Partisan Democrat attempts to overthrow and destroy the Bush II Presidency ........ and Moqtada al-Sadr's followers and supporters attempts to overthrow and destroy the Jalal Talabani Presidency in Iraq.

The said "overthrowers" and "destroyers" are like two peas in a pod.

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because TRC, Ziggy and the other Bush Haters encouraged the insurgents and terrorists to start making IEDs and using Cell phones to detionate them when our Military was least expecting it.

Like I previously stated, neither Rumsfeld or our Military personnel EXPECTED you all to "join in with the insurgents and terrorists".

Classy, Sam. Call anyone that speaks out against the war in Iraq a "terrorist".

Nothing like a little jingoism to stifle free speech.

Asshats abound.

Doesn't Sister Nan, Dingy Harry, Ziggy, TC and Muqtada Al Sadr all not have the same goals??? Get the United States Military out of Iraq at any and all cost?

You do think we should just 'march out' and leave Iraq in shambles and let the strongest survive and damn the rest, don't you TC?

You do think we should just 'march out' and leave Iraq in shambles and let the strongest survive and damn the rest, don't you TC?

Have I said that, ever? Now that you mention it though, I care more about American soldiers than Iraqi civilians. Regardless of what we do, Iraq will soon be in a shambles when we leave, be it 5 years or fifty.

I have said the war is unjustified and that Bush deserves no praise from it.

Why don't we ask the Iraqis what they want, not that we would listen. We put Blackwater back on the job against the protests of the Iraqi government.

If you think that, by force, we can give the Iraqis a stable government, you are ignorant of history.

What do you want, Aaron? To be there forever and have our children dying there as part of an unwanted occupation force?

Go on comparing people to terrorists, though. It shows the paucity of your arguments.