Are Bush tax cuts only for the rich???

LOL I stopped at two. Of course my husband was fixing them, so figure 6 of what you'd get in a bar.

In my marriage we have "just shoot me" agreements. Neither of us want to live like a turnip etc. I just had to update my just shoot me list, Michael. It now includes......."If I become a liberal". Thank you! lol

SamCogar wrote:

ziggy wrote:

SamCogar wrote:And you are badmouthing Bush ......... for the same thing you were doing for 20+- years.

No, as I have said before here, Ms. Ziggy is quite happy with the way I conducted my business.

Well Zigster, maybe you had better tell Ohio that these people .....

ohio county wrote:We've been paying "farmers" including the Lauder family of Estee Lauder fame, Ted Turner, and a host of folks in downtown Manhattan over $4 billion not to grow crops on their land.

are also quite happy with the way Congress conducts its business.

.

So what? I am not Congress. Like Aaron, you have apparently insurmountable difficulties with drawing correct and applicable analogies.

Aaron wrote:I put on my waders before I trudged into your tripe Ziggy...

So, do you have another fiscal philosophy to substitute for the time honored method of reducing spending to avoid increasing debt, and reducing debt by paying down our debts faster than we make more debts?

Enlighten us, oh great monetary wizard.

ziggy wrote:
So what? I am not Congress. Like Aaron, you have apparently insurmountable difficulties with drawing correct and applicable analogies.

You just can't take it that you're wrong, can you Ziggy!!! A cut is a cut is a cut and there's no 3 ways around it.

SamCogar wrote:Ziggy, ......... your head hurts.

Try 10 or 15 Excedrins at one time.

Now if you can get hold of 2 or 3 hydrocodones, pop them, .......

you will still be in "La La Land".............

but your head won't hurt and you will be in a happy mood.

.

Now Sam, did you ever see a Ziggy frown- even once?

Aaron wrote:

ziggy wrote:
So what? I am not Congress. Like Aaron, you have apparently insurmountable difficulties with drawing correct and applicable analogies.

You just can't take it that you're wrong, can you Ziggy!!! A cut is a cut is a cut and there's no 3 ways around it.

How can one return money to the taxpayers while spending more than is brought in? Unless you believe the nonsense that "deficit spending" is somehow necessary......a "principle" that the GOP has since jettisoned in a scant few years.

Remember Newt Gingrich, you're fond of saying.

SFCraig wrote:

Aaron wrote:

ziggy wrote:
So what? I am not Congress. Like Aaron, you have apparently insurmountable difficulties with drawing correct and applicable analogies.

You just can't take it that you're wrong, can you Ziggy!!! A cut is a cut is a cut and there's no 3 ways around it.

How can one return money to the taxpayers while spending more than is brought in? Unless you believe the nonsense that "deficit spending" is somehow necessary......a "principle" that the GOP has since jettisoned in a scant few years.

Remember Newt Gingrich, you're fond of saying.

Yes or no, was taxes lowered?

SFCraig wrote:

How can one return money to the taxpayers while spending more than is brought in? Unless you believe the nonsense that "deficit spending" is somehow necessary......a "principle" that the GOP has since jettisoned in a scant few years.

Several MILLIONS of ONEs spouses do that very thing every day of the year, Craigy.

A taxpayer gives their spouse $50 to go to WalMart for "things", ..... comes home with a trunkload having spent $40 cash and $200 on Credit, returning $10 to the taxpayer.

And thus the reason the average Credit Card debt in the US is over $10,000 ....... which makes many of them being in the $20K, $35K to $50K range.

.

Aaron wrote:Yes or no, was (sic) taxes lowered?

To what are you referring? If I remember the gripe at the time, under Clinton taxes were raised on the top brackets?

Aaron my boy, the bottom line is literally the bottom line here. When the Gov. collects taxes and it's not enough to pay for its expenses you have a deficit. In that situation you borrow. You cannot cut what was insufficient to begin with.

Bush increased by a large margin discretionary spending, including non-Military discretionary spending. If taxes are a concern for you you should regret ever voting for him.

SFCraig wrote:

Aaron wrote:Yes or no, was (sic) taxes lowered?

To what are you referring? If I remember the gripe at the time, under Clinton taxes were raised on the top brackets?

Aaron my boy, the bottom line is literally the bottom line here. When the Gov. collects taxes and it's not enough to pay for its expenses you have a deficit. In that situation you borrow. You cannot cut what was insufficient to begin with.

Bush increased by a large margin discretionary spending, including non-Military discretionary spending. If taxes are a concern for you you should regret ever voting for him.

The only thing I regret more then voting for Bush was the plain and simple fact, that of the two times he was the Republican nominee for President, dumacrats nominated an individual that wasn't capable of carrying Mr. Bush's beer, let alone holding the office of President of the United States of America. It is YOUR fault Mr. Bush won the office of President of the United States of America.

TWICE.

Where have all our leaders gone?

SFCraig,

I dig Aaron's point here. If you are looking to blame someone for Bush's second term in office, how about John Kerry and the people who nominated him?

SFCraig wrote:
Aaron my boy, the bottom line is literally the bottom line here. When the Gov. collects taxes and it's not enough to pay for its expenses you have a deficit. In that situation you borrow. You cannot cut what was insufficient to begin with.

Craig, you should educate yourself a "wee bit" on budgets ........ before you make silly statements like that.

Silly man, when a business entity begins a Fiscal Year with a ...... Budget, ...... said Budget is always in "balance", ......... the projected expenses equals the projected revenues.

Therefore, ...... in the beginning, .....the projected "income" was sufficient to pay for the projected "expenditures".

.

Point taken Sammy, but you and I both know how the games are played. Wonder why the war needs supplemental spending bills? I guess they didn't know how much it was going to cost. Not a problem as we can always borrow from China so we can buy crap from China.

RE: Mike and Aaron. Please. You believe that Bush, who hasn't done anything well in his life, the heir to the Bush dynasty, the illiterate "decider", this fool.....that Gore or Kerry could not do better than him? Seriously? You think that he is better than his opponents even while he has the lowest approval rating in modern history? What is it that this is based on? Your years of swallowing the pablum from AM radio?

And I believe you still could have run someone else in the GOP, or voted for the third parties.

Craig,

Please read the following quote, then tell me how much better the Dems are than the Pubbies. Also, please tell me who you think is behaving in a foolish and reckless manner.

"I want the Iranians to know, if I am president, we will attack Iran. I want them to understand that. It does mean that they have to look very carefully at their society, because whatever stage of development they might be in their nuclear weapons program, in the next ten years during which they might foolishly consider launching an attack on Israel, we would be able to totally obliterate them. That’s a terrible thing to say, but those people who run Iran need to understand that. Because that, perhaps, will deter them from doing something that would be reckless, foolish and tragic."

Hillary Clinton
April 22, 2008
Good Morning America

SFCraig wrote:
RE: Mike and Aaron. Please. You believe that Bush, who hasn't done anything well in his life, the heir to the Bush dynasty, the illiterate "decider", this fool.....that Gore or Kerry could not do better than him? Seriously? You think that he is better than his opponents even while he has the lowest approval rating in modern history? What is it that this is based on? Your years of swallowing the pablum from AM radio?

And I believe you still could have run someone else in the GOP, or voted for the third parties.

GWB was THE BEST CANDIDATE of a very sad lot in 2000. It was worse in 2004. I believe that with every fiber of my being. I guess I'm not alone as he won the office twice.

That's just plain foolish, Steph. She should be denounced, and by more than just the Iranian Government.

The problem here is complicated, but to start: There is a fundamental problem in American Foreign Policy. We "like" bombastic, jingoistic and aggressive pawns of the Military-Industrial complex. Democrats are taunted as "weak" partly because of the anti-war base. In an effort to "out-Republican" the Republicans Democrats authorize wars that should never be waged. They make dumb comments as Hillary did.

See here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_Against_Iraq_Resolution_of_2002

* 126 (61%) of 208 Democratic Representatives voted against the resolution.
* 6 of 223 Republican Representatives voted against the resolution: Reps. Duncan (R-TN), Hostettler (R-IN), Houghton (R-NY), Leach (R-IA), Morella (R-MD), Paul (R-TX).
* The only Independent Representative voted against the resolution: Rep. Sanders (I-VT)


How are they better? They are much more likely to vote in line with Paul on war, right?

SFCraig wrote:That's just plain foolish, Steph. She should be denounced, and by more than just the Iranian Government.

The problem here is complicated, but to start: There is a fundamental problem in American Foreign Policy. We "like" bombastic, jingoistic and aggressive pawns of the Military-Industrial complex. Democrats are taunted as "weak" partly because of the anti-war base. In an effort to "out-Republican" the Republicans Democrats authorize wars that should never be waged. They make dumb comments as Hillary did.

See here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_Against_Iraq_Resolution_of_2002

* 126 (61%) of 208 Democratic Representatives voted against the resolution.
* 6 of 223 Republican Representatives voted against the resolution: Reps. Duncan (R-TN), Hostettler (R-IN), Houghton (R-NY), Leach (R-IA), Morella (R-MD), Paul (R-TX).
* The only Independent Representative voted against the resolution: Rep. Sanders (I-VT)


How are they better? They are much more likely to vote in line with Paul on war, right?

You think they are much more likely to vote in line with Congressman Paul on war? LMAO!!! Just how many conflicts did our "First Black President" (aka as Hillary's husband) involve our troops in? How much money has the Democratically controlled Congress authorized for the war in Iraq?

You're absolutely dead on when you say the problem is with our foreign policy. How many Democrats are actively seeking to correct the insanity? Puhleaze! The Dems are every bit as willing to marginalize those who aren't willing to piddle around with other nations, sending them money, bombs, bullets, training their soldiers, propping up some dictators while trying to destroy certain democratically elected governments.

I flat out refuse to be blamed for, or lumped in with, or held accountable for the Rhinos and the neocons and the members of the Ripon Society.

Hillary Clinton is a socialist. So isn't Obama. Obama is sinking in the polls among likely Democratic voters because of things his minister says. Hillary can't control what her husband says yet Barack is supposed to get a grip on his pastor? Obama calls some Pennsylvanians bitter, Hitlery threatens to obliterate the Iranian people and his numbers sink while hers rise.

Give me a break. The Democrats are absolutely no better than the Rhinos and neocons and the people who are voting for and supporting them are no less sheep than those rallying behind "Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" McCain.

This country has become a nation of sheep. The top 3 contenders for the Oval Office are little more than shepherds wishing to lead them to economic slaughter while they irradicate any remaining bit of personal liberty and national sovereignty.

Good grief!

Where have all our leaders gone???

Aaron wrote:Where have all our leaders gone???

Good question. And you are not the first to ask.

A fellow sent me this today. I can't vouch for the authenticity of its attribution.
But I like most of it.
----------------------------------------------
Excerpts from Lee Iacocca's new book

This is a wonderful piece of writing and thinking. I wonder who he is going to vote for? I don't see any of the current candidates who would fit into this profile of a leader.

Remember Lee Iacocca, the man who made the Ford Motor Company with the Mustang, and then rescued Chrysler Corporation from it's death throes? He has a new book, and here are some excerpts.

Lee Iacocca says:

"Am I the only guy in this country who's fed up with what's happening?

Where the hell is our outrage? We should be screaming bloody murder.

We've got a gang of clueless bozos steering our ship of state right over a cliff, we've got corporate gangsters stealing us blind, and we can't even clean up after a hurr icane much less build a hybrid car.

But instead of getting mad, everyone sits around and nods their heads when the politicians say, "Stay the course"

Stay the course? You've got to be kidding. This is America , not the damned "Titanic". I'll give you a sound bite: "Throw all the bums out!"

You might think I'm getting senile, that I've gone off my rocker, and maybe I have. But someone has to speak up. I hardly recognize this country anymore.

The most famous business leaders are not the innovators but the guys in handcuffs. While we're fiddling in Iraq , the Middle East is burning and nobody seems to know what to do.

And the press is waving 'pompoms' instead of asking hard questions. That's not the promise of the " America " my parents and yours traveled across th e ocean for. I've had enough. How about you?

I'll go a step further. You can't call yourself a patriot if you're not outraged. This is a fight I'm ready and willing to have. The biggest "C" is Crisis!

Leaders are made, not born. Leadership is forged in times of crisis. It's easy to sit there with your feet up on the desk and talk theory.

Or send someone else's kids off to war when you've never seen a battlefield yourself. It's another thing to lead when your world comes tumbling down.

On September 11, 2001, we needed a strong leader more than any other time in our history. We needed a steady hand to guide us out of the ashes. A Hell of a Mess.

So here's where we stand. We're immersed in a bloody war with no plan for winning and no plan for leaving.

We're running the biggest deficit in the history of the country.

We're losing the manufacturing edge to Asia , while our once-great companies are getting slaughtered by health care costs. Gas prices are skyrocketing, and nobody in power has a coherent energy policy. Our schools are in trouble. Our borders are like sieves.

The middle class is being squeezed every which way These are times that cry out for leadership.

But when you look around, you've got to ask:"Where have all the leaders gone?" Where are the curious, creative communicators?

Where are the people of character, courage, conviction, omnipotence, and common sense? I may be a sucker for alliteration, but I think you get the poin t.

Name me a leader who has a better idea for homeland security than making us take off our shoes in airports and throw away our shampoo? We've spent billions of dollars building a huge new bureaucracy, and all we know how to do is react to things that have already happened.

Name me one leader who emerged from the crisis of Hurricane Katrina.

Congress has yet to spend a single day evaluating the response to the hurricane, or demanding accountability for the decisions that were made in the crucial hours after the storm.

Everyone's hunkering down, fingers crossed, hoping it doesn't happen again. Now, that's just crazy. Storms happen. Deal with it. Make a plan. Figure out what you're going to do the next time.

Name me an industry leader who is thinking creatively about how we can restore our competitive edge in manufacturing. Who would have believed that there could ever be a time when "The Big Three" referred to Japanese car companies? How did this happen, and more important, what are we going to do about it?

Name me a government leader who can articulate a plan for paying down the debit, or solving the energy crisis, or managing the health care problem.The silence is deafening. But these are the crises that are eating away at our country and milking the middle class dry.

I have news for the gang in Congress. We didn't elect you to sit on your asses and do nothing and remain silent while our democracy is being hijacked and our greatness is being replaced with mediocrity.

What is everybody so afraid of? That some bonehead on Fox News will call them a name? Give me a brea k.Why don't you guys show so me spine for a change?

Had Enough?

Hey, I'm not trying to be the voice of gloom and doom here. I'm trying to light a fire. I'm speaking out because I have hope I believe in America . In my lifetime I've had the privilege of living through some of America's greatest moments. I've also experienced some of our worst crises: the "Great Depression", "World War II", the "Korean War", the "Kennedy Assassination", the "Vietnam War", the 1970's oil crisis, and the struggles of recent years culminating with 9/11.
If I've learned one thing, it's this: "You don't get anywhere by standing on the sidelines waiting for somebody else to take action. Whether it's building a better car or building a better future for our children, we all have a role to play. That's the real challenge I'm raising in this book It's a call to "Action" for people who, like me, believe in Ameri ca . It's not too late, but it's getting pretty close. So let' s shake off the crap and go to work. Let's tell 'em all we've had "enough."

http://www.heritage.org/research/EnergyandEnvironment/bg276.cfm

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying Lee Iaccoca knows what he's talking about when he busts on "corporate gangsters stealing us blind". It all began with the Chrysler bail-out. I didn't hear him complaining then. Again, just because he's guilty doesn't make him wrong.

Aaron wrote:Where have all our leaders gone???

They have been chewed up and spit out by the five second sound bite. What self-respecting thinking people would subject themselves to this?

They have been rejected in favor of one liner political insults and gotchas. What self-respecting thinking people would subject themselves to this?

They have been hounded into obscurity by 24 hour, 7 days a week "instant news". Time to think and contemplate yesterday's "news" is shoved aside by demands to speak today's soundbite. What self-respecting thinking people would subject themselves to this?

They have been made obscure, maybe even unnecessary and unwanted, by a dumbed-down electorate that is more concerned about what someone's pastor said about the past than about what the candidate says about the future. What self-respecting thinking people would subject themselves to this?

Where have all our leaders gone? "They" haven't gone anywhere. The rest of us have jumped on the bus to political fairy tale land. And once there we simply closed our eyes to the need for any real "leaders", blissfully falling asleep to the lullabys and rants of party pimps and other pompus purveyous of political piracy. America's promise of public "freedoms" has been hi-jacked into submission to private fascism guaranteed by government enforcers.

Leaders? Why have leaders- when all that's required are the enforcers?

Well said, Zig.

Ziggy, you rock!!!

SFCraig wrote:That's just plain foolish, Steph. She should be denounced, and by more than just the Iranian Government.

The problem here is complicated, but to start: There is a fundamental problem in American Foreign Policy. We "like" bombastic, jingoistic and aggressive pawns of the Military-Industrial complex. Democrats are taunted as "weak" partly because of the anti-war base. In an effort to "out-Republican" the Republicans Democrats authorize wars that should never be waged. They make dumb comments as Hillary did.

See here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_Against_Iraq_Resolution_of_2002

* 126 (61%) of 208 Democratic Representatives voted against the resolution.
* 6 of 223 Republican Representatives voted against the resolution: Reps. Duncan (R-TN), Hostettler (R-IN), Houghton (R-NY), Leach (R-IA), Morella (R-MD), Paul (R-TX).
* The only Independent Representative voted against the resolution: Rep. Sanders (I-VT)


How are they better? They are much more likely to vote in line with Paul on war, right?

Which means that 82 Democrats from the house and 29 Senators voted to authorize the use of force in Iran. Dems could have stopped the invasion had the had the backbone to. They didn't because they don't.

Democrats are taunted as weak because they are weak and Hillary knows it. She knows it from her own husband and his response to the first TC bombing and the USS Cole among other military responses. The only President weaker then Clinton in the past 50 years was Carter, another democrat.

That is why she made her statement about Iran. Of the 3, she is the one that scares me the most when it comes to using force. I would fear that she wouldn't want to appear weak to the rest of the world so she would send in troops quicker then the others.

If you want the candidate that will show the most restraint in future endevors, I believe that will be McCain. Those that have been know what it is like and aren't as quick to jump the gun.

Hillary Clinton is a socialist. So isn't Obama. Obama is sinking in the polls among likely Democratic voters because of things his minister says. Hillary can't control what her husband says yet Barack is supposed to get a grip on his pastor? Obama calls some Pennsylvanians bitter, Hitlery threatens to obliterate the Iranian people and his numbers sink while hers rise.

Give me a break. The Democrats are absolutely no better than the Rhinos and neocons and the people who are voting for and supporting them are no less sheep than those rallying behind "Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" McCain.

This country has become a nation of sheep. The top 3 contenders for the Oval Office are little more than shepherds wishing to lead them to economic slaughter while they irradicate any remaining bit of personal liberty and national sovereignty.


First of all, let me say without criticizing, that unless there is a new definition I am unaware of the term you want is RINO, "Republican In Name Only".

Secondly, how can you all cheer Zig when he says we've been reduced to sound bytes, then summarize the candidates as the generic sound bytes sent by talking points memos and reverberating throughout the political echo chamber? Aren't you then part of the problem?

I agree with you re: Hillary, if what you are saying is that she got a free ride on what is possibly the most reprehensible and illogical pandering of the campaign. Obama should not be affected by what his pastor any more than Terry's should be guilty of what he says. (Couldn't resist!)

Also, why can you allow for some good Republicans, while treating all Democrats as the same. Do you have a category you refer to as DINOs? If so, what does that mean?


If you believe that America's military is misused by greedy corporations and crooked politicians, why would you not see at least something in common with the anti-war left, or the Democrats that refused to go along with the Bush administration's foolish war? The fact that so few Republicans opposed it while many Democrats did?

RE: Bill's military follies. While I was not opposed to intervention in the former Yugoslavia, you'll find that most on the left do not approve of Clinton's military adventures. Michael Franti, lefty musician of the Bay Area says this in his song:

Well politicians got lipstick on the collar
the whole media started to holler
but I don’t give a fuck who they screwin’ in private
I wanna know who they screwin’ in public
robbin’, cheatin’, stealin’
white collar criminal
McDonald eatin, you deserve a beatin’
send you home a weepin’, with a fat bill for your Caribbean weekend
for just about anything they can bust us
false advertising sayin’ “Halls of Justice”
you tellin’ the youth don’t be so violent
then you drop bombs on every single continent



Hardly a ringing endorsement...besides, Bill was a moderate Republican. Those without blinders can surely see that.