Why West Virginia Matters

by **ohio county** Tue May 13, 2008 11:11 am

And no Democratic president has won the White House since 1916, without winning West Virginia. - Hillary Clinton at the Capitol

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08130/880431-176.stm

If Barack Obama loses West Virginia by 40% today as is expected in some quarters, how can he carry West Virginia in the fall? And beyond wearing his flag lapel pin at the Civic Center yesterday for a brief appearance, he doesn't seem to care. I believe he is in Missouri today.

Anybody catch the negative press we're winning around the country?

by Aaron Tue May 13, 2008 11:18 am

I saw on TV this morning where they said Obama's new electoral map put less emphasis on tratitional democratic states such as West Virginia, Kentucky and Arkansas and more on states like Mississippi and Louisana in the south and Oregon and Washington in the west.

Does that mean BO believes what Hillary is saying?

by ziggy Tue May 13, 2008 11:24 am

Aaron wrote:I saw on TV this morning where they said Obama's new electoral map put less emphasis on tratitional democratic states such as West Virginia, Kentucky and Arkansas and more on states like Mississippi and Louisana in the south and Oregon and Washington in the west.

Does that mean BO believes what Hillary is saying?

If it turns out that it's true, what is wrong with BO or anyone else believeing it?

by **ohio county** Tue May 13, 2008 11:34 am

Yeah. If he can perceive a winning strategy by playing to his strengths in states the democrats have not done well in historically, that would pretty well confirm his genius. If not, it confirms his ignorance. He's done pretty well this far.

by Aaron Tue May 13, 2008 11:40 am

ziggy wrote:
Aaron wrote:I saw on TV this morning where they said Obama's new electoral map put less emphasis on tratitional democratic states such as West Virginia, Kentucky and Arkansas and more on states like Mississippi and Louisana in the south and Oregon and Washington in the west.

Does that mean BO believes what Hillary is saying?

If it turns out that it's true, what is wrong with BO or anyone else believeing it?

I'm sorry Frank, did someone other then Linda say there was something wrong in believing it?

Seems to me the smart thing to do would be to focus your resources where you think you're getting the highest return from them which is what I think Obama is doing.

To me, Gore and Kerry couldn't figure out the average blue collar working man doesn't want universal health care, increased welfare or income distribution or any other socialist program you guys have to offer. What they want to do is work an honest days work for an honest days pay.

I think it further illustrates the point that democrats are not representative of the working class man any longer no matter what the labor endorsements say and BO is realizing that. I'm sure liberals like Linda will say it's because of race but for me, this is only a continuation of 2000 and 2004 and has nothing to do with race and everything to do with socialism.

by Aaron Tue May 13, 2008 11:42 am

I think what he realized a long time ago what Hillary is now saying. The blue collar working man won't vote for him. Now Hillary's saying it's because of race but I think it's more then that. The working man didn't vote for Gore in 2000 or Kerry in 2004 and they're twice as white as Obama is.

I think it has more to do with what you've been saying your reasons are for not voting for him are; he's a big government tax and tax and tax and use our money to buy votes liberal socialist.

by ziggy Tue May 13, 2008 11:58 am

One of the worst kept secrets of American (48 states) society is that we are a racist society.

Only economic classism is more politically divisive than race.

by Aaron Tue May 13, 2008 12:06 pm

Were we racist in 2000?

How about 2004?

Could it be that the middle class blue collar working man is tired of being lumped into the same catagory as the entitlement receiving socialist non-working man regardless of race?

It's easy to say that the only reason WV'ians and KY'ians don't vote for BO is because he's black but I think that's the media's cop out for not digging further and further into the truth of the matter.

The truth of the matter is, that overwhelmingly, working men and women have rejected socialist liberals and theier demand for universal health care and all the other drivel they propose.

by **Stephanie** Tue May 13, 2008 12:19 pm

Hold up a minute there, Aaron. Are you suggesting Hillary isn't a socialist, or even that she is less of a socialist than Obama?

No, WV'ians aren't voting for Hillary because she is some sort of capitalist icon. By and large they are voting for her because she is white like they are.

Let's at least be honest about things.

by **ohio county** Tue May 13, 2008 12:43 pm

Aaron's argument, if I understand it correctly, is that working men and women look at Kerry or Obama and see the same Harvard-educated lawyer who might gnaw on some arugula or go wind-surfing. Economic classism? I don't think we're as racist as were even twenty years ago.

by **Stephanie** Tue May 13, 2008 12:59 pm

ohio county wrote:Aaron's argument, if I understand it correctly, is that working men and women look at Kerry or Obama and see the same Harvard-educated lawyer who might gnaw on some arugula or go wind-surfing. Economic classism? I don't think we're as racist as were even twenty years ago.

I'm sure as a whole racism in this state is on the decline. I've heard stories about a sign that once hung at the Webster County line from my husband. I'm just going by personal experiences I have had with people in my community and in the community where my husband was raised. I think the more rural the area, the more prevelant racism is in WV. The people I know from Charleston, South Charleston, Dunbar....if they are racist at least they're not announcing it to people they have just met.

Perhaps I'm dense or something. I don't see all that much difference between Obama's Harvard degree and the degree Yale awarded Hillary. Wind-surfing is fun, but arugula I could do without.

by Aaron Tue May 13, 2008 1:12 pm

Stephanie wrote:Hold up a minute there, Aaron. Are you suggesting Hillary isn't a socialist, or even that she is less of a socialist than Obama?

No, WV'ians aren't voting for Hillary because she is some sort of capitalist icon. By and large they are voting for her because she is white like they are.

Let's at least be honest about things.

West Virginian's are voting for her because she's white and has more name recognition. I'm not doubting that. They have very little choice as this is the primary election. I'll be more interested in the voter turnout compared then I will be the margin of victory.

But when it comes to Novemnber and the general election, I beleive it's less about racism and more about Socialsim and Liberalism.

WV chose GWB by a decent margin in 2000 and again in 2004 over very liberal candidates.

I think that is more of a factor for Obama and his lack of attention to WV then the color of his skin does.

by **Stephanie** Tue May 13, 2008 1:18 pm

I'll buy the name recognition thing. I don't believe anybody thinks Obama is a bigger socialist than Clinton. The biggest difference I see between them is their stated foreign policy views. Obama says he wants dialogue and Clinton says she's wants to totally obliterate another nation. Perhaps people here like war, but I don't think so.

by **ohio county** Tue May 13, 2008 1:19 pm

And you know what? Maybe, once again, I'm full of prunes. I just got this e-mail from a colleague I like and respect:

Let's get this and other similiar messages out and

around the country - hopefully to caring and con-

cerned people, before it is too late. Notice par-

ticularly the last quoted line re:MUSLIMS!!!

Obama's words... direct and unbelievable quotes from his own books!

Below are a few lines from Obama's books " his words:

From Dreams of My Father: I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.

From Dreams of My Father : I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mothers race.

From Dreams of My Father: There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.

From Dreams of My Father: It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.

From Dreams of My Father: I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa, that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.

From Audacity of Hope: I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.

I did like and respect her. I find this a foolish waste of time. Obama is a fine candidate and probably a good man. I wouldn't vote for him because he is a socialist. I don't care if he's orange.

by Aaron Tue May 13, 2008 1:24 pm

Stephanie wrote:I'll buy the name recognition thing. I don't believe anybody thinks Obama is a bigger socialist than Clinton. The biggest difference I see between them is their stated foreign policy views. Obama says he wants dialogue and Clinton says she's wants to totally obliterate another nation. Perhaps people here like war, but I don't think so.

I heard a woman from Fairmont who voted between 7 and 7:30 say she voted for Hillary because BO's a muslim. I think religion has more to do with her having such a wide margin the race does as well.

And it may play a small role in rural towns all over America come November, but I doubt it. I still think he will be rejected in the general election because, as Jimmy said, he's a liberal socialist and McCain's not, at least in places like Appalachia and the Ozarks and other rural areas. I just don't think working class people will support that type of politician.

by **Stephanie** Tue May 13, 2008 1:28 pm

Jimmy,

Even my bordering on anarchist husband believes Obama is probably a good man with good intentions. We don't care what color or religion he is. Like you, neither of us will vote for him because he is a socialist.

It's a pity really. He's such a brilliant speaker and I believe he has a very bright career in politics ahead of him. He's also so darn likeable. I hate that in a socialist. lol

by **Stephanie** Tue May 13, 2008 1:30 pm

Aaron,

We seem to be having two entirely different discussions. I'm talking about why WV'ians are voting for Clinton over Obama in such large numbers. They're both liberal socialists. He doesn't appear to be quite the warmonger she is. Other than that, their differences all appear to be pretty superficial to me, like the colors of their skin.

by Aaron Tue May 13, 2008 2:10 pm

Stephanie wrote:Aaron,

We seem to be having two entirely different discussions. I'm talking about why WV'ians are voting for Clinton over Obama in such large numbers. They're both liberal socialists. He doesn't appear to be quite the warmonger she is. Other than that, their differences all appear to be pretty superficial to me, like the colors of their skin.

And their religion. But I agree, that's about all that separates the two.

I was speaking to the general election and why I think Obama is putting little effort into WV and KY and it all sort of tied in together and I probably go a little ahead of myself.

by **Stephanie** Tue May 13, 2008 2:21 pm

They're both some sort of Christian. I'm not sure the difference is all that significant. I don't even know what variety of Christian, but I suppose if he's a Baptist and she isn't the Baptists may gravitate more toward him. See how much attention I pay to religion? lol

by Aaron Tue May 13, 2008 2:29 pm

Stephanie wrote:They're both some sort of Christian. I'm not sure the difference is all that significant. I don't even know what variety of Christian, but I suppose if he's a Baptist and she isn't the Baptists may gravitate more toward him. See how much attention I pay to religion? lol

You are correct and I stand corrected. What I meant to say was the fact that people mistakeningly think he's a Muslim. There will be some that will vote for him for that very reason.

by ziggy Tue May 13, 2008 2:54 pm

Damn, that was close. Good save, though.

by **SheikBen** Wed May 14, 2008 5:55 am

Ziggy,

Do you believe that Hillary won WV (a closed primary) is proof that the people of WV are racist? If so, you're only dealing with Democratic voters.

by TerryRC Wed May 14, 2008 6:08 am

There will be some that will vote for him for that very reason.

You are kidding, right?

I have seen "Obama, Osama - coincidence?" on more than one church in this state.

I'm tooling up for the next holy war.

by Aaron Wed May 14, 2008 8:12 am

TerryRC wrote:There will be some that will vote for him for that very reason.

You are kidding, right?

I have seen "Obama, Osama - coincidence?" on more than one church in this state.

I'm tooling up for the next holy war.

My bad. I left out NOT in the one sentance you highlighted. I think that for the most part, Stephanie got my meaning.

by **SheikBen** Wed May 14, 2008 9:23 am

TerryRC wrote:There will be some that will vote for him for that very reason.

You are kidding, right?

I have seen "Obama, Osama - coincidence?" on more than one church in this state.

I'm tooling up for the next holy war.

Really? I haven't seen it anywhere. I wouldn't be any more or lesslikely to vote for Obama if his name was Horace P McSatan. I find his views repulsive. I also don't care about his jerk pastor, at least not as far as Obama is concerned.

I think you are looking for Crusades in too many places, TerryRC. I am a born again Christian and I run in a circle of born again Christians, and the general view is still that abortion is the litmus test, and a candidate's religious identity is a tertiary consideration.

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