Israel Strikes Hamas (Worst in 60 years!)

http://arturoafc54.wordpress.com/2008/12/29/iran-behind-hama-hezbollah-key-israeli-says/

It was probably instigated by Iran.

I'll admit that I didn't pay this story much attention when the rockets started a couple of weeks ago. From what I can gather, it evolves from the ending (Dec 19 I think) of a peace treaty negotiated by Egypt.

Palestinians started firing Rockets and Israel retaliated, of that there is no doubt. From there it get's fuzzy.

One report stated that it was a couple of eager young men not associated politically with Hamas who got a hold of a few rockets and that Israel overreacted.

Israeli officials say their response was due to a build up of Palestinian weapons along the border.

One thing is for certain. If there is an all out war, Palestine cannot stand up to Israel. The only motive they have in continuing launching rockets is to hope other Arab nations will come to their aid.

Some think that is Hezbollah/Iran but considering they are Shiite while Hamas is a Sunni organization, I'm not sure how likely that is.

Armon Ayers wrote:

Stephanie wrote:Israel should respect her internationally recognized borders. Israel should acknowledge the right to return of the Palestinian people. Israel should tear down the god damned wall they've been constructing and dismantle the settlements in the West Bank. Israel should end the practices of Apartheid and genocide and the ethnic cleansing of the Holy Land.

If Israel behaved like a civilized nation, instead of a power hungry land grabbing militant state the Palestinians wouldn't be interested in desperate, pathetic attempts at the destruction of Israel, in large part because so many of Israel's residents would be Palestinian and in part because they wouldn't be living like animals the world's largest concentration camp denied basic human rights and necessities.

With all do respect, Stephanie, if Israel does as you say, then Israel would cease to exist. Don't you agree that Israel has the right to exist as free and democratic society in that cesspool of Islamic-fascists surrounding them?

It isn't a free and democratic society. A free democracy doesn't create distinct classes of citizens. A free democracy doesn't expel some citizens in order to give the residents of preference a super majority.

No, I don't believe Israel has the right to impose the will of the minority on the majority of indigenous people by imprisonment, displacement, segregation and death.

Israel has turned Gaza into the largest concentration camp in the history of the world. You choose to turn a blind eye to that. This I cannot understand.

Mind you, if it were strictly Muslims they were actively cleansing from the Holy Land, at least I'd understand why you choose to ignore reality. The truth of the matter is the Zionists have been systematically purging the area of Christians as well. Perhaps it's because so many of the Christians are Catholic and many Protestants don't consider Catholics to be Christians, which boggles the mind.

Never the less, Muslim, Catholic, and Jew, they are all human beings and have certain unalienable rights. Unfortunately, that is a view Zionists don't share. Only Zionist Jews are important. Even ultra-orthodox Jews are not safe from the wrath of the rabid Zionists.

Stephanie wrote:

Armon Ayers wrote:

Stephanie wrote:Israel should respect her internationally recognized borders. Israel should acknowledge the right to return of the Palestinian people. Israel should tear down the god damned wall they've been constructing and dismantle the settlements in the West Bank. Israel should end the practices of Apartheid and genocide and the ethnic cleansing of the Holy Land.

If Israel behaved like a civilized nation, instead of a power hungry land grabbing militant state the Palestinians wouldn't be interested in desperate, pathetic attempts at the destruction of Israel, in large part because so many of Israel's residents would be Palestinian and in part because they wouldn't be living like animals the world's largest concentration camp denied basic human rights and necessities.

With all do respect, Stephanie, if Israel does as you say, then Israel would cease to exist. Don't you agree that Israel has the right to exist as free and democratic society in that cesspool of Islamic-fascists surrounding them?

It isn't a free and democratic society. A free democracy doesn't create distinct classes of citizens. A free democracy doesn't expel some citizens in order to give the residents of preference a super majority.

No, I don't believe Israel has the right to impose the will of the minority on the majority of indigenous people by imprisonment, displacement, segregation and death.

Israel has turned Gaza into the largest concentration camp in the history of the world. You choose to turn a blind eye to that. This I cannot understand.

Mind you, if it were strictly Muslims they were actively cleansing from the Holy Land, at least I'd understand why you choose to ignore reality. The truth of the matter is the Zionists have been systematically purging the area of Christians as well. Perhaps it's because so many of the Christians are Catholic and many Protestants don't consider Catholics to be Christians, which boggles the mind.

Never the less, Muslim, Catholic, and Jew, they are all human beings and have certain unalienable rights. Unfortunately, that is a view Zionists don't share. Only Zionist Jews are important. Even ultra-orthodox Jews are not safe from the wrath of the rabid Zionists.

Okay then, I will put you down as undecided. (Let's not fight anymore this year. Okay?)

Stephanie wrote:Do you not thing the blockade that has led to such widespread suffering, shortage of food, medical supplies, and power etc is not an act of war?

Steph, do you really think that if Israel dismantles their blockade of Palestine, Gaza and/or whatever that Hamas will promise not to transport anymore missles and armanent across the border to be fired at Israel?

A "cross their heart and swear on the Koran" promise.




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No, I don't, Sam.

It would take a whole lot more than ending the blockade, like all the other things I stated earlier Israel should do.

"What does Hamas believe and what are its goals?

Hamas combines Palestinian nationalism with Islamic fundamentalism. Its founding charter commits the group to the destruction of Israel, the replacement of the PA with an Islamist state on the West Bank and Gaza, and to raising "the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine." Its leaders have called suicide attacks the "F-16" of the Palestinian people. Hamas believes "peace talks will do no good," Rantisi said in April 2004. "We do not believe we can live with the enemy."

After over 50 years of destruction, displacement, and death at the hands of the Israelis, this group finally concluded there can be no peace with the government of Israel.

Who can blame them?

Well then are you conceding there is no solution?

Other than the Final Solution?

No I am not.

Sherm, I am a middle aged housewife who has spent most of her adult life raising children, yet I came up with an alternative. I believe it is my own, I don't ever recall hearing it anywhere else, although I concede it is possible this has been proposed before but if so I haven't heard of it. I do think I posted this once before to the forum, but a long while ago.

I suggest the US immediately cut off all aid, both cash and military aid to the Israeli government. We should offer any Israeli Jew entry to the USA. Many Jews living in Israel have dual citizenship with other nations and may decide to return to the nation of their birth, some will choose to come to America. Those that remain will do so with the knowledge they are on their own after a set period of time, I would suggest a year.

There is absolutely no reason this country couldn't absorb as many Israeli Jews who fear life in the Middle East without US backing. If we can manage to live with 20 million undocumented illegal aliens from all corners of the world, we can certainly make room for every Israeli who wishes to live in peace in the melting pot that is America.

The Palestinians can have their homeland back, and any Jew with a lick of common sense will live safely in America or the nation of their birth. No longer will Americans be sending billions of billions of dollars worth of cash and weapons to Israel. We could spend that money helping these immigrants adjust to life in the United States instead of on bombs and tanks and bullets to eradicate the people of Palestine.

Well why not make the same offer to the other Palestinians?

Why should the Jews be the ones who have to leave?

The Palestinians didn't create the problem, for starters. The Zionists did.

Secondly, you're talking about a far greater number of people dispersed across a number of nations. They aren't all in Gaza & the West Bank. They are in Syria and Saudi Arabia and Lebanon and Jordan and so on. These are people who have lived under the harshest conditions for decades, facing oppression and aggression, displacement and genocide with weapons bought and paid for with US money, but a military funded and trained by the US government. These people are traumatized and victimized in some really horrific ways. You don't want them in your community.

They aren't a secular people. They won't fit in here. Their customs and their culture will cause a lot of turmoil for them and their American hosts. The American people won't accept them and they won't accept America.

Jews live all over America, in large cities and small towns here. They hold elected office, run banks, sit on the US Supreme Court. They are doctors and lawyers and school teachers here. They are entertainers and scientists and cooks and firefighters in this country. Americans accept Jews and Jews accept America. The cultures are much more similar and the Jews of this 21st Century have not endured the hardships and the horrors the Israeli government has inflicted on the people of Palestine.

There are a lot of reasons, Sherm. But you already know all that. Like how providing safe haven for the Palestinian victims of Israeli aggression will not soothe the rage of the Syrians and Lebanese and other Arabs who for generations have played host to millions of Palestinian refugees. It won't end the animosity Syrians feel towards the Zionist government over the taking of the Golan Heights and it will do nothing to placate the Iranians who live under constant threat from Israel and the US.

Why should the US government continue to arm and fund this nation who spies on the USA, stealing nuclear secrets and other classified information? Why should we continue to arm and fund this nation who continues to defy US policy? Why should the American taxpayers have their wages garnished to pay for more weapons for the navy that bombed the USS Liberty and just attacked a relief vessel carrying US journalists and a former US Congresswoman?

Stephanie wrote: We should offer any Israeli Jew entry to the USA.

How about the same offer to all Palestinians and/or Hamas members?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081231/D95DVSEO0.html

Well it looks like they are going to take the bull by the tail and go after the root of the problem...

The problem with grabbing the bull by the tail is that it turn the bull around. If Israel sends in ground troops, I doubt Hezbollah will set back and do nothing.

Well hezboullah might want to re-consider what they wish for because they might get it.

I think I already made myself quite clear, Sam. I would not wish to see the US make the same offer to the Palestinians and why. I would be adamantly opposed to it.

Steph, it really doesn't matter how much you hate the Jews or love the Palestinans, you might as well bite the bullet and give it up.

With Hamas et el, it is not a matter of land or terrorities being regained, it is a matter of getting the Jews, ........ dead.

If you export all the Jews out of Israel to the US, ....... Hamas et el will follow, ..... then what will you do? Export them to ANWR maybe?

Now Israel made the desert "bloom" ...... and Hamas et el can make their desert bloom, ........ but they are not one damn bit interested in doing that. They are only interested in blowing all the Jews to hell and they can't do that without arms, explosives, bombs and rockets. And the only way they can get said is to import them from another country.

And that is when Israel said, ....... no f'ing way, and closed the borders and put the embargo in place in an attempt to insure no more importing of said arms, explosives, bombs and rockets.

Well now, this put a damper on said imports and also the importing of other goods needed by the Palestinian people. But Hamas didn't worry that much, they just started digging tunnels, ..... dozens n' dozens of tunnels, ...... under the borders and kept on importing their arms, explosives, bombs and rockets.

But did Hamas care about the Palestinian people's need for those other imported goods and smuggle them in along with their arms, explosives, bombs and rockets?

HELL NO, they didn't give a shit about that.

But you did Steph, you give a shit about the Palestinian people. But who are you all pissy faced at?

Well DUH, you are pissed at the Jews, ..... not Arafat, not Hamas and not the religious whackos. You are pissed at Israel for defending herself and want the clock turned back to 1946.

It ain't going to happen Steph, ....... it ain't going to happen.

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sodbuster wrote:Well hezboullah might want to re-consider what they wish for because they might get it.

Just like they did the last time the two confronted, hey Sod.

So if Israel continues to assert it's authority, how long do you think it is before other Arab countries get tired of it?

You're wrong, Sam. I'm not all "pissy-faced" at the Jews. I'm outraged at my government for perpetuating this insanity.

You're also wrong in thinking that Hamas would follow the Israelis to America if they leave the Middle East. They want their homeland back. They want their basic human rights restored.

For the record, I don't hate Jews or love Palestinians. I despise what the Israeli and US governments have done to the indigenous people of that region and I am sympathetic to the plight of the Muslims & Christians of the region. I have no desire to help them exact revenge or spread their religion or anything like that. I do have a great desire to have my government mind her own F'ing business and let those whackos take care of themselves allowing Americans to keep more of their money and more of their resources right here in the USA for the benefit of the American people.

Call me crazy.

http://www.judaicawebstore.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=MT-01

I'm starting to see Stephanies point of view regarding Israel.

Steph, here is a web site of maps of the Middle East
http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/arabworld/haxisrael.html

which by clicking on different ones you can see how the partitioning of Palestine has occurred from say this one of 1920.

The League of Nations Mandate for Palestine
- 1920

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts%20About%20Israel/Israel%20in%20Maps/The%20League%20of%20Nations%20Mandate%20for%20Palestine%20-%201920

Then you can tell me who took the biggest chunk of Palestine and why the hell isn’t Hamas after their ass to get it back.




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Perhaps because those other nations haven't spent the past 75 years trying to exterminate them.

Perhaps this will give all the fundie-Zionists pause in their celebration of the death and destruction of Gaza.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,474824,00.html