REMEMBER: Freedom is not free.

ziggy wrote: Now you agree with me. That is my point exactly- that though we may disagree on interpretations of these books or documents, it does not mean that either of us is either superior or inferior to the other. It menas that what works for you may not work for me, and what works for me may not work for you. Honest people can disagree about how to live live their lives.

So then what you are saying is that the US Constitution, a legal document, doesn't say the samething to everyone. That it might say to me that speach is free and to you speach isn't free. It is little wonder we find ourselves in the mess we do.

[quote="ziggy"] You were doing pretty well until you said:

It demostrates intellectual dishonesty.

I said it because it is the truth.

ziggy wrote: Intellectual dishonesty by whom? By those who disagree with your interpretations? You are back to that intellectual superiority thing again- that you are somehow intellectually superior to and more intellectually honest that those who disagree with you.

You simply cannot fathom that honest people can come to different conclusions on matters of religion and government without one or the other being liars (or "intellectually dishonest", to use you term).

If what you say is actually true, then we do not need a republic based in liberty to pursue happiness in our own ways. We only need a system wherein the King determines what is right and wrong and makes everyone follow the only correct way- or a return to the time when nations were ruled and controlled by the Catholic Church and the Pope, maybe. That way there is no debate about right and wrong and whether there is only one or several rights and wrongs for various peoples-just ask the Pope what is right for today and get the answer straight from God's personal emissary. That the ticket!

Ziggy, until now I had actually given you some credit for a functioning brain. Not any more. You have no clue what I am talking about, so you bounce around the subject with jibberish. I understand fully that people come to difference conclusions on things like religion and the Constitution. I also know that there is right and wrong. Just because I come to a difference conclusion on a matter does not make my conclusion correct. The same is true on religion and witht he Constitution. Just because people come to differing conclusion, it does not make their conclusion the correct one.

If what you seem to be saying is so, then you have no right to criticize Bush for all the damamge he did to the 4 th amendment, simply that's his interpretation. Neither do you have any right to criticize the Catholics for their views, after all that's the conclusion they have come to and by your logic their interpretation is just as correct as yours.

Simply Ziggy that is idiotic.

We must never forget who
Gets the credit for the freedoms we have, of which we should be
Eternally grateful.

I watched the flag
Pass by one day,
It fluttered in the breeze.

A young Marine
Saluted it,
And then he stood at ease..

I looked at Him in uniform
So young, so tall, so proud,
With hair cut square
And eyes alert
He'd stand out in any crowd..

I thought how many men like him
Had fallen through the years.
How many died on foreign soil
How many mothers' tears?

How many pilots' planes shot down?
How many died at sea
How many foxholes were soldiers' graves?
No, freedom isn't free

I heard the sound of Taps one night,
When everything was still,
I listened to the bugler play
And felt a sudden chill.

I wondered just how many times
That Taps had meant 'Amen,'
When a flag had draped a coffin.
Of a brother or a friend.

I thought of all the children,
Of the mothers and the wives,
Of fathers, sons and husbands
With interrupted lives.

I Thought about a graveyard
At the bottom of the sea
Of unmarked graves in Arlington.
No, freedom isn't free.

Enjoy Your Freedom
&God Bless Our Troops

When you receive this, please stop for a moment and say a Prayer for our servicemen.
Of all the gifts you could give a US Soldier, Prayer is the very best One.

Aaron wrote:We must never forget who
Gets the credit for the freedoms we have, of which we should be
Eternally grateful.

I watched the flag
Pass by one day,
It fluttered in the breeze.

A young Marine
Saluted it,
And then he stood at ease..

I looked at Him in uniform
So young, so tall, so proud,
With hair cut square
And eyes alert
He'd stand out in any crowd..

I thought how many men like him
Had fallen through the years.
How many died on foreign soil
How many mothers' tears?

How many pilots' planes shot down?
How many died at sea
How many foxholes were soldiers' graves?
No, freedom isn't free

I heard the sound of Taps one night,
When everything was still,
I listened to the bugler play
And felt a sudden chill.

I wondered just how many times
That Taps had meant 'Amen,'
When a flag had draped a coffin.
Of a brother or a friend.

I thought of all the children,
Of the mothers and the wives,
Of fathers, sons and husbands
With interrupted lives.

I Thought about a graveyard
At the bottom of the sea
Of unmarked graves in Arlington.
No, freedom isn't free.

Enjoy Your Freedom
&God Bless Our Troops

When you receive this, please stop for a moment and say a Prayer for our servicemen.
Of all the gifts you could give a US Soldier, Prayer is the very best One.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

- -- Thomas Jefferson

I will admit that we have fought wars, we should have never been involved in and we have lost and wounded men and women because of the ego and aspirations of leaders, who were never fit to be leaders. However, that gives no one the right to disrespect these men and women who saw it as their duty to volunteer or who during the times of conscription did not run and hide or use thier parents influance to avoid the draft, but chose instead to fullfill what was required of them.

There are too many people who want to hold the missteps and arrogance of the president and congress against the men and women who were one the front lines, who saw it as thier duty to be on the front lines. To hold theses man and women accountible for the actions of their leaders is an act so immoral and so unethical it defies description. Actually, it is the act of a coward and malignant narcessist.

If ever a group of people existed who did not deserve any respect from the citizens of the US it is not the men and women who have served this nation, it is the presidents, congresses, and supreme courts that corrupted the preinciples of this nation.

No RC, I'm not weaslewording anything. I pointed out you were confusing Patriotism and Nationalism. You know the difference but admitting I'm right would mean you're wrong, and you're never willing to admit that. That would be your problem, not mine.

Bullshit, Aaron. I have admitted I was wrong twice recently. Once about Obama's political history and once about the draft.

YOU, I have not seen admit error.

So, how am I confusing patriotism and nationalism? How am I wezelwording?

I made a statement about how nationalism can be a bad thing and you said that patriotism and nationalism are two different things.

You made the statement, back it up or concede that you don't know what you are talking about.

TerryRC wrote:No RC, I'm not weaslewording anything. I pointed out you were confusing Patriotism and Nationalism. You know the difference but admitting I'm right would mean you're wrong, and you're never willing to admit that. That would be your problem, not mine.

Bullshit, Aaron. I have admitted I was wrong twice recently. Once about Obama's political history and once about the draft.

YOU, I have not seen admit error.

So, how am I confusing patriotism and nationalism? How am I wezelwording?

I made a statement about how nationalism can be a bad thing and you said that patriotism and nationalism are two different things.

You made the statement, back it up or concede that you don't know what you are talking about.

When I'm wrong, I admit it. I can't help it if I'm rarely wrong.

Had you said nationalism was the "last refuge of a scoundrel", we wouldn't be having this conversation.

But you didn't say that. On Sunday morning at 8:41 am, you posted...

TerryRC wrote:Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

I told you then you were confusing nationalism and patriotism and apparently you now agree as your post using nationalism in place of patriotism acknowledges.

Concession time RC.

I told you then you were confusing nationalism and patriotism and apparently you now agree as your post using nationalism in place of patriotism acknowledges.

Concession time RC.

Yes. When are you going to do it?

It was my assertion that the two words are interchangeable. That the difference between the two words is the difference between "terrorist" and "freedom fighter".

You say that they aren't.

Since you said I am incorrect, you must show how.

What is the difference between nationalism and patriotism, Aaron?

Can't you tell me the difference, Aaron? If it is so obvious, just spit it out. It shouldn't be tough for you.

Start by reading this Terry.

I'm sure you'll revert to your true Scotsman response and reply with something along the lines of "in your own words" as you refuse to admit you're wrong but this is as good a place to start as any.

If you wish to continue the lesson, let me know.

So, what is the difference, Aaron?

Nationalism is an extreme form of Patriotism?

You author's OPINION piece isn't clear.

Can't you just tell me the difference based on Webster's, or something?

Man, you are reaching...

Just out of curiousity Terry, do you wear a kilt?

Just out of curiousity Terry, do you wear a kilt?

What's the matter, Aaron. Doesn't Webster's differentiate between the two things?

Even your blogger admits that the two are often the same thing.

So, Aaron. How do you tell a patriot from a nationalist? They both worship a flag.

And, yes, I do have a kilt. Murdoch clan colors.

Of course you do. All true scotsman do, right.

You're the expert Terry so I see no point in getting down on your level.

Cheers

Aaron. Can you not open up a dictionary and tell me the difference between nationalists and patriots?

It is the simplest thing in the world, isn't it.

Just give up, dude.

I've explained it several times (the best was the man standing from the wheel chair was patriotism, the kids setting until an event like 9/11 was nationalism) and your 'slip-up' proved beyond a shadow of a doubt you understand the difference. All you're doing now is posturing, trying to hit a mark that you keep moving.

As I said, you're the expert and I can't compete with you down there.

Cheers Scot.

I've explained it several times (the best was the man standing from the wheel chair was patriotism, the kids setting until an event like 9/11 was nationalism) and your 'slip-up' proved beyond a shadow of a doubt you understand the difference. All you're doing now is posturing, trying to hit a mark that you keep moving.

How do you know he wasn't a nationalist instead of a patriot? Perhaps he thinks we should just take over the world.

I didn't slip up. I was showing that the two words are interchangeable.

So, got those dictionary definitions yet?

Aaron, you will never admit that you might be wrong, even when you can't back up your assertion with ANY evidence.

People can get away many things in the name of patriotism. Abortion clinic bombers will call themselves patriots, whether you agree they are or not. Shit, our rights have been curtailed many times in the name of "patriotism", most recently by the "Patriot Act".

I haven't moved a single mark. From the beginning I have said that evil things have been done in the name of patriotism. I used the word nationalism in one post because the two are interchangeable in every real sense.

You are the one that changed the topic by saying that nationalism and patriotism are really two different things, trying to invalidate my point.

You, Aaron, are the off-topic poster, here.

They are two different things and your slip up proved it.