A Tale of Two Murders

Cato wrote: Sam seems to think that people won't stand up for themselves because of self preservation.

Willy, you really should re-read what you write .... before you punch the "Send" button.

You "painted" that one with an awful broad brush and using the color of Envious Insult in an attempt to quince your hunger of retribution.



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ziggy wrote: My question to you was first.

Once again, which liberties have been taken away because SamCogar or Ziggy or "others" did not die for them? I am 63 years old. How would any of those liberties have been preserved even if I had died- in Vietnam, in Iraq, or anywhere else? The wars that have been fought by Americans in my adult lifetime were not about preserving the liberties you say have been lost. To the degree that any of those liberties have been lost, they have been taken by politicians right here in the good ole' USA.

And I don't disagree. Most of what the politicans have drug this nation into in recent years has been about nation building not about preserving liberty.

ziggy wrote:What would you have us do? Drive an explosives laden truck up to the White House and set it off in a suicide bombing, or to the Capitol Building, or to the Supreme Court building? How do you want me and Sam and others to die to defend YOUR principles? Why aren't you willing to do what you blame us for not doing?

I didn't know that standing for life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness were "my principles"! Am I blaming you, yes I am, just as I blame myself and a great number of others. We have become complacent and apathetic and maybe somewhat cowardly or at least taken the view of letting someone else do the fighting. Is there anything you, other than as Sam has described only in the name of self preservation, would you fight. Are you willing to to allow the politicians to extort the fruit of your labor, conscript your children and grandchildren (yes, I know there isn't draft right now), and take your liberties, rather than stand and fight? As Patrick Henry put it, Is life so precious to you that you would be willing to live as a slave?

By the way, I'm not asking to you to fight for me, I'll do my own fighting thank you very much, you can do as you please. I am just asking is there anything, any principle for which you would fight

O'Reilly plays this for personal aggrandizement. That he happens to be right doesn't make his part in it wholesome. Tiller was a monster. I wouldn't advocate killing him. Eternal damnation - maybe. Summary execution - no.

Tiller was a monster who enjoyed an enviable lifestyle because he murdered innocent unborn babies. He preyed upon vulnerable women and I can't say I'm sorry he is dead. I will say I wish he had died a natural death or in an accident of some sort. What I'm sorry about is the pro-life movement will be demonized because of the actions of one disturbed individual. That's the tragedy in this as far as I'm concerned.

Media outlets are now reporting the Tiller family has decided to keep the clinic closed permanently. I'm quite pleased it won't reopen. A monster is dead and his death factory is out of business.

Stephanie wrote:Tiller was a monster who enjoyed an enviable lifestyle because he murdered innocent unborn babies. He preyed upon vulnerable women and I can't say I'm sorry he is dead.

WHOAH, ..... wait a minute.

What the ell are you talking about when you say "He preyed upon vulnerable women"?

To quince my curiosity, please explain that to me.

(and ps, that is a loaded question that pertains to our Page 3 conversation.)

A pregnant woman who is suffering pregnancy related complications, or knows her baby will be born sick or disabled, or who is being pressured into an abortion by an abusive husband/boyfriend or sometimes even parent would be described as vulnerable by most people, Sam.

Stephanie wrote:A pregnant woman who is suffering pregnancy related complications, or knows her baby will be born sick or disabled, or who is being pressured into an abortion by an abusive husband/boyfriend or sometimes even parent would be described as vulnerable by most people, Sam.

As much as it pains me Sam has a point. You might want to look at the Stats a little bit. Almost all the late term abortions are performed solely for the sake of birth control, they just didn't want to be pregnant. Yes, Tiller was a monster, a child murderer. He was capitalizing on the whims of a group overindulged and irresponsibile women, who were in many ways no better than Tiller was.

Cato,

Are you disputing the fact that Tiller performed 3rd trimester abortions on women seeking abortions for the reasons I listed? What were the percentages? I don't know but surely there were some and that is why I say he preyed upone vulnerable women.

Stephanie wrote:Cato,

Are you disputing the fact that Tiller performed 3rd trimester abortions on women seeking abortions for the reasons I listed? What were the percentages? I don't know but surely there were some and that is why I say he preyed upone vulnerable women.

Yes I am. While I don't mean to question your opposition to abortion, I think we need to be on target witht he facts.

In 1987, the Alan Guttmacher Institute (AGI), an affiliate of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA), collected questionnaires from 1,900 women who were at abortion clinics procuring abortions. Of the 1,900, "420 had been pregnant for 16 or more weeks." These 420 women were asked to choose among a menu of reasons why they had not obtained the abortions earlier in their pregnancies. Only two percent (2%) said "a fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy," compared to 71% who responded "did not recognize that she was pregnant or misjudged gestation," 48% who said "found it hard to make arrangements," and 33% who said "was afraid to tell her partner or parents." The report did not indicate that any of the 420 late abortions were performed because of maternal health problems.

Cato,

Your figures are over 20 years old. A whole lot of prenatal screening that was extremely rare has become routine since the mid 1980's.

In addition, even using the numbers you posted, a small percentage of the respondents listed a problem with the baby diagnosed late in pregnancy as the reason.

Tiller was a monster and he committed his atrocities for the almighty dollar. He preyed upon vulnerable women.

Stephanie wrote:Cato,

Your figures are over 20 years old. A whole lot of prenatal screening that was extremely rare has become routine since the mid 1980's.

In addition, even using the numbers you posted, a small percentage of the respondents listed a problem with the baby diagnosed late in pregnancy as the reason.

Tiller was a monster and he committed his atrocities for the almighty dollar. He preyed upon vulnerable women.

First, I never said Teller was anything less than a child murderer. My point is that he isn't alone in that charge. Nobody holds a gun to any woman's head and forces them to have an abortion, especially a late term abortion. The ultimate decision as to whether or not to abort the baby lays with the woman. She alone has the final word in the matter.

You are right scum like Tiller are there to capitalize on a very poor and very selfish decision. However, unless a woman walks into his clinic the abortion isn't going to happen.