Re: A question about education

by Cato Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:05 pm

TerryRC wrote:And I'll be darned if you are going to use the force of law to require my kids to be taught yours without rebuttal.

Because evolutionary biology is science. Is creationism science? Do you feel comfortable with a school teaching your kids religion? Any religion?

I want to know what gives you the right to force your evolution as the only possible explaination of how we came to be. Just because you believe it doesn't give you or anyone else the right to exclude all other possible explaintions simply because you happen to disagree with them.

Because it is the only scientific "explaination" that makes any sense for a SCIENCE class and will be needed for most careers in the biological sciences.

If you say so!!! Rolling Eyes

TerryRC wrote:Frist, I'm not a very sympathtic person anymore. People have to take responsibility for themselves and those they are suppose to be responsible for. One of the chief reason many don't is anny government does it for them. That has to quit.

Then you don't need police or firemen or utilities. You can provide those things for yourself. Get your neighbors together and pay for your own roads. You don't need that nanny government.

I love how you come back with the absolute absurd. You know that isn't what I talking about. Come on, tryt o be a little honest.

TerryRC wrote:Willy, your don't think it is in your best interest to have an educated public?

We need an educated public, what is not needed is an indoctrinated one.

TerryRC wrote:[You think it is OK that a kid gets no education because the parents are poor or uncaring? Abortions are bad because it kills a "child", yet after that, your responsibility ends?

Compassionate conservatism?

I realize you can't comprehend this, but there is a thing called responsibility. When a man and woman get together and a pregnacy results, responsibility attaches. One's choices resulted in life for another and because of said choices, one has assumed the responsibility for that life. That includes bringing the life into the world, providing for it, and educating it. It is time you and oothers realized that.

by **Stephanie** Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:45 pm

The state, however, has the right to set standards of mastery in basic subjects that YOU will be responsible for seeing they meet.

First of all, the state needs to set standards for the students in their charge before they go dictating to homeschoolers what standards their children need to meet.

Secondly, what consequences do school officials face for the vast number of students who can't read at grade level? What consequences do teachers face for pumping out students colleges must remediate before getting down to the business of college level courses? What consequences do administrators face for the violence students must contend with each day in public schools and what consequences does anyone other than the students pay for the dumbing down of the American education system?

I have news for you, there is no system in place in the state of West Virginia to make sure homeschoolers are being taught biology, or geography, or civics nor should their be. Until the educrats in this state get their own classrooms in order they have no business telling me, or any other parent, what goes on in theirs.

Here's an interesting tidbit for you.........

One of the assessment options available for homeschoolers is participation in school run standardized testing. A homeschooled student MUST score at the 50th percentile or better or they must show improvement each and every year until they reach the 50th percentile or face intervention, usually culminating in the parents being compelled to send their child to school.

Why is that? What happens to the teachers, administrators, and schools of students scoring below the 50th percentile? That's half the students in public school. What consequences do they face?

There are some homeschoolers who aren't the greatest. I know homeschool children who don't receive adequate instruction (imho) and I know homeschooled children with parents who stress them out. All of them are better off than my older children were when they attended public school. It hurts me to admit that, but it's the truth.

by SamCogar Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:04 am

[quote="Stephanie"]

Why is that? What happens to the teachers, administrators, and schools of students scoring below the 50th percentile? That's half the students in public school. What consequences do they face?

The word on the street is that students are "droping out" of Braxton County High School and Middle School......... like flies sprayed with DDT.

The ones that aren't just outright quitting are transferring to another County.

Ya know its bad when the kids tell their parents ...... "I want out of there or I'll quit school and get my GED".

.

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by Aaron Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:29 am

Donnie told me that he didn't learn anything in his last two years at Poca High School that prepared him for college other then what pills not to take. He believes that had he taken the ACT after his sophomore year, he would have scored higher and done better.

Had I known about this , I would have pursued it for both Zachary and Donnie. Both could have quit school after their sophomore year, got their GED, sent them to state for core classes and both would have been halfway through college by the time their class graduated and been prepared to go away to complete college and beyond.

by Cato Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:46 am

Aaron wrote:Donnie told me that he didn't learn anything in his last two years at Poca High School that prepared him for college other then what pills not to take. He believes that had he taken the ACT after his sophomore year, he would have scored higher and done better.

Had I known about this , I would have pursued it for both Zachary and Donnie. Both could have quit school after their sophomore year, got their GED, sent them to state for core classes and both would have been halfway through college by the time their class graduated and been prepared to go away to complete college and beyond.

Both our middle and youngest children said the samething.

by **Stephanie** Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:52 am

Well, I don't think you can lay that entirely at the feet of the school, or the school system.

What classes did they take? Seriously. Kate took 3 AP courses her last 2 years of high school and she will be the first to tell you how much they helped her. The best example of this is the AP Chem class she took. She's taking Organic Chem now and doing just fine while the majority of the other students in that course are struggling. They go to her for help.

by Cato Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:16 am

Stephanie wrote:Well, I don't think you can lay that entirely at the feet of the school, or the school system.

Not completely, I don't think. There is more than enough fault to go around and the education system bears alot of fault, but parents also bear alot of fault as do the kids themselves.

by Aaron Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:12 am

Stephanie wrote:Well, I don't think you can lay that entirely at the feet of the school, or the school system.

Donnie took an AP history class that was taught by a teacher who had no business teaching it. Many of the students knew more then he did.

And Zachary wanted to take AP history but was told that if he took one AP class, he had to enroll in all 3 and he had no interest in taking two of them so he took none.

As it is the school that is providing inadequate teachers and forcing the curriculum, just how much of it should be laid at the feet of the school?

I know both Donnie and Zachary share in their education. I’ve told all of my children they get exactly out of everything they do what they put into it. And both put less then they should in high school but bottom line is, neither were/are challenged at Poca High School.

If anything, the liberalized views they’ve been exposed to with no opposing views offered at the hands of a bunch of liberal teachers who feel compelled to teach their beliefs in lieu of providing an education has done more harm then good.

Stephanie wrote:Kate took 3 AP courses her last 2 years of high school and she will be the first to tell you how much they helped her. The best example of this is the AP Chem class she took. She's taking Organic Chem now and doing just fine while the majority of the other students in that course are struggling. They go to her for help.

And how many BS classes did she take that in no way prepared her for college and how much further along would she be right now had she taken that AP class at State 2 years ago?

by **Stephanie** Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:47 am

Aaron,

Kate's story is a little different from most high school students.

Prior to moving to the middle of nowhere, Kate was homeschooled for a couple of years. She decided she wanted to go to BHS because we were new here and so isolated. We both knew she'd make few friends, if any, without attending school.

BHS refused to give her credit for anything she did while homeschooling. So, she had to take Spanish I again.....complete waste of time, but did help her GPA. Gym was another meaningless waste of time. She also took electronic music production and painting, both huge wastes of time. Her civics class was a joke. She probably could have done a better job teaching that class. Her 9th grade Honors English class was a joke.

She graduated in 3 years. I'd say of those 6 semesters a total of one was an utter waste.

I wouldn't have wanted Kate in college two years ago. I don't think it would have been a good situation for her. She still needs to learn a bit more about time management and relationships.

by Aaron Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:31 pm

Kate needed the socializing and interaction with others. Donnie and Zachary didn't.

If anything, Donnie needs to interact LESS and without beer, which he seems to have discovered a fondness for.

by TerryRC Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:59 am

If you say so!!!

I and every other respected biologist in the world.

I love how you come back with the absolute absurd. You know that isn't what I talking about. Come on, tryt o be a little honest.

You calling it absurd doesn't make it so. You rail against government run programs in the form of public schools, yet you take advantage of a number of them at the same time.

Who is really being dishonest here?

We need an educated public, what is not needed is an indoctrinated one.

Unless it is with your bible stories in science class...

I realize you can't comprehend this, but there is a thing called responsibility. When a man and woman get together and a pregnacy results, responsibility attaches. One's choices resulted in life for another and because of said choices, one has assumed the responsibility for that life. That includes bringing the life into the world, providing for it, and educating it. It is time you and oothers realized that.

And when the parents can't or won't take responsibility? As far as willie is concerned, it is "Too bad, kid..."?

Aren't you supposed to care for the least of us? You are a sucky christian.

by TerryRC Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:01 am

And if it involves creationism, so be it. Charleston Catholic has had 100% of their students accepted into college with very little need for remedial education so it must be working.

Aaron. Catholic schools teach evolutionary biology.

by Aaron Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:26 pm

TerryRC wrote:And if it involves creationism, so be it. Charleston Catholic has had 100% of their students accepted into college with very little need for remedial education so it must be working.

Aaron. Catholic schools teach evolutionary biology.

And they preach creationism.

by **Stephanie** Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:29 pm

I just had to ressurect this thread. After reading the three articles below, you gents still sure you think corporal punishment should be an option?

6-Year-Old Scout Suspended for Bringing Knife-Fork-Spoon Utensil to School

Six-year-old Zachary Christie was so excited to become a Cub Scout that he brought his camping utensil to school. The tool serves as a spoon, a fork and a knife, and Zachary wanted to use it at lunch.

What Zachary didn't know was that the gizmo violated his school's zero-tolerance policy on weapons. And now the Christina School District in Newark, Del., has suspended the first grader and ordered him to attend the district's reform school for 45 days.

Zachary's parents insist their son did not intend to hurt anyone, and they are fighting to overturn the ruling.

"Zachary wears a suit and tie some days to school by his own choice because he takes school so seriously," Zachary's mother, Debbie Christie, told the New York Times. "He is not some sort of threat to his classmates."

The school district, in a statement, said rules are rules and defended its decision to suspend the boy.

"At this time, the Student Code of Conduct does not take into consideration a child's age in a Level three offense," the statement read.

"This is the first incident this year involving a student under the age of seven in possession of a dangerous instrument. Christina School District staff and the Christina Board of Education are constantly examining ways to improve policies regarding student discipline."

At a meeting with the school disciplinary committee last week, Zachary's karate instructor and his mother’s fiancé made the case for the boy's character.

And Zachary's mother has started a Web site to attract support for her son before a meeting of the school board on Tuesday.

Worried mom secretly records son's classroom

BUFFALO, W.Va.--Wondering why her 5-year-old son, Chase, was acting strangely at home, Buffalo resident Kathie Crouse decided to send him to school with a recording device.

Crouse recorded the goings-on of her son's kindergarten classroom at Buffalo Elementary School for a total of seven days over a span of about three weeks. Aug. 31 was the first day and Sept. 22 was the last day, she said.

Crouse said things weren't right from the start of the school year.

"It was the second day of school and I'm getting pulled aside by the teacher, telling me my son isn't paying attention," she said. "I thought to myself, it's the first couple days of kindergarten, none of those kids are really paying attention."

Over the next week, Crouse noticed Chase was acting differently. He was crying more often. He didn't want to go to school.

"It wasn't a separation type of cry," Crouse said. "It was a scared cry."

She asked that he be moved to another classroom but was told that wasn't an option.

She also requested to observe the classroom but said she was denied.

"I was told they didn't like having people in and that it would disturb the children and that children's privacy was an issue," Crouse said.

Buffalo Elementary Principal Mike Mullins could not be reached for comment.

"I have two in college and one in high school, and I've been a volunteer in schools, so it just didn't make sense to me," the mother said.

"The school didn't leave me with any other options," Crouse said. "I knew something wasn't right. I couldn't get any answers and I couldn't go in the classroom. I knew even if I went in the classroom, she was going to be two-faced. I needed to know what was going on. So I decided to start tape recording."

One of her older sons who is in high school had used a digital device to record his classroom lectures. She thought she could use the device for Chase's situation.

The device was a small Sony digital voice recorder. She said the battery can last up to 144 hours, depending on the setting. Crouse said she put it on the voice recognition setting so it would come on when someone started talking.

With the recorder on voice recognition, the battery usually would last a full school day, she said.

Crouse tucked the device into her son's backpack. She said he was aware of it but didn't question or bother with it.

"He had seen it, but he's in kindergarten," she said. "He could've cared less about anything about it."

After listening to the first day's recording, she was appalled. But she thought maybe it was just a bad day. She decided to record another day. After a few days' worth, she kept recording.

"I thought they'd blow it off as a bad week," Crouse said. "But it was the same way every day."

An excerpt from the recordings has the teacher saying, "This one's not going to listen to a thing I say. This one right here's just a baby. This one's not going to listen to a thing I say. This one's not going to listen to a thing I say. This one's a baby. This one's not going to listen to a thing I say. And of the 23 there's about seven of 'em that are going to keep everybody else from learning."

"It wasn't just my child; it was several kids getting yelled at," Crouse said of the recordings.

Crouse said she finally put her foot down and called the principal to tell him she would be in to observe. She said he told her the teacher was out sick. But the teacher's aide was still present, she said.

Crouse visited Chase's classroom on a Tuesday. She said she recorded while she was there and after she left.

"The substitute was nice and while I was there, the aide was fine," she said. "But when I left, (the aide) was right back at it again, just like the teacher."

That was the end of the recordings, Crouse said.

At that point she decided to put her complaints in writing, citing specific school codes that she believed the teacher and teacher's aide had violated. Soon after that she made copies of the recordings and distributed them to other parents and then to the principal and school board members.

"I had a meeting that afternoon with the board, and they met with all of the parents individually and heard all of their concerns," she said.

Putnam County Schools Superintendent Chuck Hatfield would not comment on the situation Tuesday other than to say the school system's personnel director is investigating.

Crouse said her son wasn't the only one having problems after school.

"A lot of them had noticed their behavior had gotten terrible," she said. "Some of the kids had been peeing and pooping in their pants because they weren't allowed to go to the bathroom. I had some parents tell me their kids would be staying in the bathroom all evening long. A lot of them were taking them to the doctor, trying to figure out what was going on.

"These are 5- and 6-year-olds. They're in kindergarten. That shouldn't be happening," she said.

Crouse said she did not consult a lawyer prior to recording and hasn't since; however, she said West Virginia is a one-person consent state, meaning only one party needs to know they are being recorded. Since Chase is under 18, only she as his parent and guardian needed to be aware, she said.

"I'm sure the teachers union is going to fight it and say that it was illegal for me to tape," she said.

Judy Hale, president of the American Federation of Teachers-West Virginia, said she wasn't as concerned about teachers being recorded in the classroom as she was about the children.

"I think I'm more concerned about the fact that (she) was taping children without their, or their parents', permission," she said. "I am very concerned from that standpoint."

Hale said she had not researched all of the legal ramifications of the situation.

"As far as I know, parents are welcome to sit in classrooms at any time, if they go through the principal and are not disruptive," she said. "But it was my understanding that this woman was very disruptive in the classroom when she was visiting."

Hale said she had not heard the recordings.

Putnam schools spokeswoman Karen Nowviskie said the board could not comment on the matter because it was a personnel issue.

"It's still a matter we're working on here," she said.

The teacher could not be reached for comment.

Morgantown teacher on leave after dancing in classroom

MORGANTOWN, W.Va. -- A Morgantown High School teacher is on administrative leave after a MySpace video showed her dancing and behaving strangely in a classroom.

A hearing will be scheduled to let Lynn Ann Clawges explain herself.

Monongalia County Schools Superintendent Frank Devono said Thursday he was concerned by Clawges' conduct. He wouldn't comment further Friday, saying it's a personnel matter that's under investigation.

Students say Clawges was removed from a freshman history class Monday after they went to administrators.

Clawges' union, the West Virginia Federation of Teachers, did not immediately return a telephone message. A message left for a Lynnann Clawges in Morgantown was not immediately return

by **SheikBen** Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:29 pm

Hi Steph,

Incompetent teachers, yes. Do we need more competence and less useless liberal hurdles to teach? Yes.

But I still believe the threat of corporal punishment needs to exist, even if teachers never use it, and obviously an abusive teacher could still be fired or even prosecuted if warranted.

by **Stephanie** Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:27 pm

Michael,

The single biggest problem with your assertion that an abusive teacher could be fired and/or prosecuted is it will not happen. Administration will cover up the abuse MOST of the time. On the rare occasion when a teacher is facing the loss of their job or prosecution, their unions will use every tool at their disposal (including their very deep pockets) to shelter that teacher.

I'd also like to point out, that if a teacher ever hit one of my children, I'd be the one facing charges because the threat of prosecution would not so much as cause a moment of hesitation in this family......that teacher would discover the law of Karma 3-fold at the hands of me and/or my husband. I'm pretty sure we're not the only parents who fall in that group.

by **SheikBen** Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:42 pm

You could be onto something, there, but I am more concerned about a teacher indoctrinating my kids than using corporal punishment.

As far as the "mama bear" thing goes I have no doubt that you and DH would kick the requisite ass. You might go to jail, but I envision you as a hero there......

by SamCogar Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:40 am

SheikBen wrote:You could be onto something, there, but I am more concerned about a teacher indoctrinating my kids than using corporal punishment.

There is a simple solution to both problems ........ and that would be to install tiny "wide angle" video cameras in all classrooms and cafeterias with a "live feed" back to an Internet Server which could be remotely accessed by Administrators and parents of the students.

Doing said would be a Win-Win solution that would afford protection for the Teacher as well as for the students ....... and would greatly enhance the quality and quantity of education in the Classrooms.

A question about education - Page 2 197570

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by **SheikBen** Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:02 am

Sam,

GREAT idea. Sunshine is the best disinfectant!

by **Stephanie** Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:15 am

I love the idea........but do you really think the unions or administration would allow it?

by SamCogar Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:07 pm

Stephanie wrote:I love the idea........but do you really think the unions or administration would allow it?

Piss on the unions, administrators, teachers and service personnel, ....... apply for a Federal Grant to install said system in one or more Schools and cocerce Obama into signing an Executive Order for it to be installed. Such would negate any Court action to prevent said installation.

An added benefit for such a system would hinder any breaking, entering, robbing and/or destroying of School properties.

by Aaron Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:43 pm

You could also use it as a safety measure to prevent kids from coming to school with weapons and/or fighting. In fact, don't limit it to the rooms. Put EVERY square inch save portions of the rest rooms where business is handled under camera.

by SamCogar Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:51 am

I was going to say "it would also curb the 'drug dealing' in the hallways" ........ but then I figured the Teachers would protest that.

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