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It Didn't Start With Climategate, TerryRC

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Post by Ich bin Ala-awkbarph Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:56 pm

It Didn't Start With Climategate (IPPC peer reviewed docs changed after peer review)
Powerline ^ | 1/1/10 | Powerline


The whistleblower at the University of East Anglia who leaked emails and other documents that reveal the fraud that is being perpetrated by the world's leading global warming alarmists did us all a great service. But it is important to realize that the deception didn't just begin: rather, the global warming hysteria movement has been shot through with fraud from the start.

The most important document in the history of the anthropogenic global warming movement was the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's Second Assessment Report, which was published under the auspices of the United Nations in 1996. This report was the principal basis for the Kyoto Accord which was signed in 1997, and for the nonsense that has been inflicted on the world's elementary school students ever since.

But the Second Assessment Report was hijacked by an AGW activist who re-wrote key conclusions and injected a level of alarmism that had not been present in the consensus document. You can get the whole story here, along with a great deal more information about the global warming controversy. The Science and Environmental Project summarized what happened as follows:

IPCC assessment reports, and particularly their Summaries for Policymakers (SPM), are noted for their selective use of information and their bias to support the political goal of control of fossil fuels in order to fight an alleged anthropogenic global warming (AGW).

Perhaps the most blatant example is IPCC's Second Assessment Report (SAR), completed in 1995 and published in 1996. Its SPM contains the memorable phrase "the balance of evidence suggests a discernible human influence on global climate." You may recall that this 1996 IPCC report played a key role in the political deliberations that led to the 1997 Kyoto Protocol.

This ambiguous phrase suggests a group of climate scientists, examining both human and natural influences on climate change, looking at published scientific research, and carefully weighing their decision. Nothing of the sort has ever happened. The IPCC has consistently ignored the major natural influences on climate change and has focused almost entirely on human causes, especially on GH gases and more especially on carbon dioxide, which is linked to industrial activities and therefore 'bad' almost by definition.

How then did the IPCC-SAR arrive at "balance of evidence"? It was the work of a then-relatively-junior scientist, Dr Benjamin D. Santer of the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL), who has recently re-emerged as a major actor in ClimateGate. As a Convening Lead Author of a crucial IPCC chapter, Santer carefully removed any verbiage denying that human influences might be the major or almost exclusive cause of warming and substituted new language. There is no evidence that he ever consulted any of his fellow IPCC authors, nor do we know who instructed him to make these changes and later approved the text deletions and insertions that fundamentally transformed IPCC-SAR.

The event is described by Nature [381(1006):539] and in a 1996 WSJ article by the late Professor Frederick Seitz (See also my Science Editorial #2-09). Seitz compared the draft of IPCC Chapter 8 (Detection and Attribution) and the final printed text. He noted that, before printing, key phrases had been deleted from the draft that had earlier been approved by its several scientist-authors.

This is from Professor Seitz's 1996 Wall Street Journal article:

This IPCC report, like all others, is held in such high regard largely because it has been peer-reviewed. That is, it has been read, discussed, modified and approved by an international body of experts. These scientists have laid their reputations on the line. But this report is not what it appears to be--it is not the version that was approved by the contributing scientists listed on the title page. In my more than 60 years as a member of the American scientific community, including service as president of both the National Academy of Sciences and the American Physical Society, I have never witnessed a more disturbing corruption of the peer-review process than the events that led to this IPCC report.

A comparison between the report approved by the contributing scientists and the published version reveals that key changes were made after the scientists had met and accepted what they thought was the final peer-reviewed version. The scientists were assuming that the IPCC would obey the IPCC Rules--a body of regulations that is supposed to govern the panel's actions. Nothing in the IPCC Rules permits anyone to change a scientific report after it has been accepted by the panel of scientific contributors and the full IPCC.

The participating scientists accepted "The Science of Climate Change" in Madrid last November; the full IPCC accepted it the following month in Rome. But more than 15 sections in Chapter 8 of the report--the key chapter setting out the scientific evidence for and against a human influence over climate--were changed or deleted after the scientists charged with examining this question had accepted the supposedly final text. Few of these changes were merely cosmetic; nearly all worked to remove hints of the skepticism with which many scientists regard claims that human activities are having a major impact on climate in general and on global warming in particular.

The following passages are examples of those included in the approved report but deleted from the supposedly peer-reviewed published version:

"None of the studies cited above has shown clear evidence that we can attribute the observed [climate] changes to the specific cause of increases in greenhouse gases." "No study to date has positively attributed all or part [of the climate change observed to date] to anthropogenic [man-made] causes." "Any claims of positive detection of significant climate change are likely to remain controversial until uncertainties in the total natural variability of the climate system are reduced."
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Post by TerryRC Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:48 am

Powerline is your source? Seriously?

Like I said, even if a couple of crusaders did fudge some data (yet unproven), it doesn't refute the rest of the evidence.

Your weak jeers do not support your argument, preacher.

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Post by SamCogar Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:30 pm

Some AGWers are claiming that during the past ice ages and warming periods, the CO2 concentration never went above 300 ppm. It is now 385 ppm and some are a little worried about what that means.

But, those calculated CO2 concentration below 300 ppm were all calculated via the Vostok Ice Core data, to wit, the Vostok Ice Core Graph - Temperature and CO2 – past 400K years It Didn't Start With Climategate, TerryRC Vostok-ice-core

And the CO2 concentrations above 300 ppm were all measured at Mauna Loa and in the Antarctica.

And to explain that difference, to wit: Exerted from: The Discovery of Global Warming http://www.aip.org/history/climate/co2.htm

He nailed down the likelihood that adding more CO2 would increase the interference with infrared radiation. Going beyond this qualitative result, Plass calculated that doubling the level would bring a 3-4°C rise. Assuming that emissions would continue at the current rate, he expected that human activity would raise the average global temperature "at the rate of 1.1 degree C per century."

So, the AGW claims are based solely on CO2’s interference with infrared radiation.

But proving CO2 interferes with IR radiation does not prove that it causes increased warming of the earth’s surface. To do that, the CO2 would have to retain the IR generated heat energy for several hours, which it doesn’t.

Once meteorologists understood that ocean uptake was slow, they found it possible that CO2 levels had been rising, just as Callendar insisted.(35) Yet it was only a possibility, for the measurements were all dubious. By the mid 1950s, researchers were saying that it was important to measure, much more accurately, the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere.(36)

A Scandinavian group accordingly set up a network of 15 measuring stations in their countries. Their only finding, however, was a high noise level. Their measurements apparently fluctuated from day to day as different air masses passed through, with differences between stations as high as a factor of two.

OH WOW, and the difference between those air masses was the amount of water (H2O) vapor in them. Mercy me, when the H2O vapor ppm is high then the CO2 ppm is low. A very important fact to remember.

Charles David (Dave) Keeling held a different view. As he pursued local measurements of the gas in California, he saw that it might be possible to hunt down and remove the sources of noise. Technical advances in infrared instrumentation allowed an order of magnitude improvement over previous techniques for measuring gases like CO2.


AH SO, more accurate CO2 measuring equipment in the mid 1950’s.

Revelle's simple aim was to establish a baseline "snapshot" of CO2 values around the world, averaging over the large variations he expected to see from place to place and from time to time. After a couple of decades, somebody could come back, take another snapshot, and see if the average CO2 concentration had risen. Keeling did much better than that with his new instruments. With painstaking series of measurements in the pristine air of Antarctica and high atop the Mauna Loa volcano in Hawaii, he nailed down precisely a stable baseline level of CO2 in the atmosphere.


ALRIGHTY, Keeling recorded the first ever most accurate CO2 measurements high up in the atmosphere where there was little to no H2O vapor to screw up his measurements. Another very important fact to remember.

In 1960, with only two full years of Antarctic data in hand, Keeling reported that this baseline level had risen. The rate of the rise was approximately what would be expected if the oceans were not swallowing up most industrial emissions.

OK, now we know from whence the graph of the famous Keeling Curve of atmospheric CO2 concentrations had its humble beginning. To wit, the graph:
It Didn't Start With Climategate, TerryRC 104260-004-139F9FCD

And one must keep in mind those CO2 measurements were taken in the pristine air high atop the Mauna Loa volcano in Hawaii which was/is devoid of H2O vapor.

And it is important to keep that in mind because, as we learned above, H2O vapor in the atmosphere can cause a difference in the measured amount of CO2 in the air as high as a factor of two. A “factor of two” too less CO2 and that is because the H2O vapor pushes the CO2 out of the area.

And if that CO2 gets pushed out of the area, the H2O vapor can’t absorb very much of it. And if it can’t absorb very much of it then there won’t be very much of it in the snowflakes when the H2O vapor crystallizes. And if there is not very much of it in the snowflakes then there won’t be very much of it in the glaciers when the snow pack turns to ice, will there?

Yup sireeee, there could be a difference of the CO2 concentrations between the air and the glacial ice as high as a factor of two. RIGHT? And thus the Vostok Ice Core CO2 data really doesn’t reflect the actual CO2 ppm in the atmosphere.

Whatta ya think?

.

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Post by TerryRC Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:44 am

But proving CO2 interferes with IR radiation does not prove that it causes increased warming of the earth’s surface. To do that, the CO2 would have to retain the IR generated heat energy for several hours, which it doesn’t.

Says who? Did you pull that fact out of your copious ass?

It [IR] is reradiated as soon as the molecule reached the proper energy state.

The problem is that it is reradiated randomly. This means that some of it doesn't go back out to space and leave the system. That bit is radiated and absorbed by other molecules or the surface.

You just make shit up, don't you, Sammy.

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Post by SamCogar Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:06 am

TerryRC wrote: But proving CO2 interferes with IR radiation does not prove that it causes increased warming of the earth’s surface. To do that, the CO2 would have to retain the IR generated heat energy for several hours, which it doesn’t.

Says who? Did you pull that fact out of your copious ass?

TRC, why I bet your wife n' kids are smart enough to know that at night time is is always hotter in the city. But they might not know that at night time is is always colder in the desert. And iffen you don't believe that then best you spend a night in the desert without heavy clothes or a blanket and you will be pulling your CYAs outta your frozen ass. Razz Razz Razz Razz

TerryRC wrote: It [IR] is reradiated as soon as the molecule reached the proper energy state.

IR energy is reradiated just as soon as the molecule starts absorbing it. Just like the molecules in your ass or the metal of a heating stove does. That heating stove doesn't wait until it reaches the proper energy state before it starts reradiating that IR to warm you ass. Iffen ya let the fire die down in dat stove ..... then the reradiation by the stove will die down also. And iffen you walk away from dat radiating stove den your ass isa gonna start cooling down immediately.

TerryRC wrote: The problem is that it is reradiated randomly. This means that some of it doesn't go back out to space and leave the system. That bit is radiated and absorbed by other molecules or the surface.


Yes, I can agree with that. It is reradiated randomly in all directions just like the Sun radiates its energy.

And yes, some of it that is absorbed by the molecules in the air doesn't immediately get reradiated back out to space, but only a smidgen of it.

And that smidgen of energy is that which is reradiated directly toward the surface of the earth or that smidgen that perchance strikes another molecule of air. And the chance it will strike another air molecule and be absorbed is pretty damn remote. And that is because of the vast distance of space between molecules of air, ........ excluding high concentrations of water (H2O) vapor that is.

TerryRC wrote: You just make shit up, don't you, Sammy.

Tis no wonder you remain in perpetual ignorance, you truly believe everyone is just making shit up to be telling you.

That's what being nurtured by Socialist liberal Teachers and Professors will gets yu.

perpetual ignorance


.

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Post by TerryRC Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:23 am

That's what being nurtured by Socialist liberal Teachers and Professors will gets yu.

You still have not backed up this statement, Sammy:

But proving CO2 interferes with IR radiation does not prove that it causes increased warming of the earth’s surface. To do that, the CO2 would have to retain the IR generated heat energy for several hours, which it doesn’t.

Now you have an additional statement that you can't back up:

And yes, some of it that is absorbed by the molecules in the air doesn't immediately get reradiated back out to space, but only a smidgen of it.

You just make shit up, don't you.

BTW, I'm dying to know what MY socialist agenda is, Sammy.

I'm not for universal health care. I do not like the idea of "cap and trade". Affirmative action and unions have outlived their usefulness. SS is a pyramid scheme. I don't care for "hate crime" legislation. I am anti-gun control.

I could go on, but I'd really rather hear how I have a "socialist agenda".

I think you know it isn't true, but it doesn't matter if you can make the label stick.

By the way, your contempt of anyone that has gone to college is very proletarian of you. I notice, however, you only whip it out for people that disagree with you.

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Post by SamCogar Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:44 pm

TerryRC wrote:

You still have not backed up this statement, Sammy:

But proving CO2 interferes with IR radiation does not prove that it causes increased warming of the earth’s surface. To do that, the CO2 would have to retain the IR generated heat energy for several hours, which it doesn’t.

Terry, step outside in your skivvies today ...... and see how long that "hot CO2" keeps you warm.

TerryRC wrote:Now you have an additional statement that you can't back up:

And yes, some of it that is absorbed by the molecules in the air doesn't immediately get reradiated back out to space, but only a smidgen of it.

You just make shit up, don't you.

TRC, put a bowliing ball in your kitchen oven, heat it up to 500 degrees, take it out and place it on the table, ..... then touch it all over with your finger and then tell me which spot on it is not reradiating IR energy.

TerryRC wrote:BTW, I'm dying to know what MY socialist agenda is, Sammy.


TRC, only you for sure knows what that might be.

I can only for sure tell you what you "elitist protocall attitude" is as a result of ... "being nurtured by Socialist liberal Teachers and Professors".

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Post by TerryRC Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:12 am

TRC, only you for sure knows what that might be.

I can only for sure tell you what you "elitist protocall attitude" is as a result of ... "being nurtured by Socialist liberal Teachers and Professors".


Spoken like a true propagandist, Sam.

You are a liar that can't even show how I am a "socialist". I don't know why people on this board respect you. You are a bully and the truth is not in you.

BTW, the person that got me started in entomology was a Bircher and one of my MS board members (and one of my favorite professors) was a conservative member of the Church of Latter Day Saints.

Really liberal socialists. I'd sell your crystal ball, if I was you (and I am so glad I am not).

TRC, put a bowliing ball in your kitchen oven, heat it up to 500 degrees, take it out and place it on the table, ..... then touch it all over with your finger and then tell me which spot on it is not reradiating IR energy.

That statement has NOTHING to do with your manufactured assertions that, to cause global warming, CO2 would have to hold absorbed heat for hours and that, even though the reradiated heat is scattered randomly, only a "smidgen".

Keep pulling those arguments out of your ass, Sammy.

Terry, step outside in your skivvies today ...... and see how long that "hot CO2" keeps you warm.

It was your argument that the CO2 would have to "stay hot", not mine.

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Post by SamCogar Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:50 pm

TerryRC wrote: You are a liar that can't even show how I am a "socialist".

I don't have to, Willy has been doing that for weeks n' week.

TerryRC wrote: I don't know why people on this board respect you. You are a bully and the truth is not in you.

Because I am an honest and truthful "educating" bully.

TerryRC wrote: TRC, put a bowliing ball in your kitchen oven, heat it up to 500 degrees, take it out and place it on the table, ..... then touch it all over with your finger and then tell me which spot on it is not reradiating IR energy.

That statement has NOTHING to do with your manufactured assertions that, to cause global warming, CO2 would have to hold absorbed heat for hours and that, even though the reradiated heat is scattered randomly, only a "smidgen".

Keep pulling those arguments out of your ass, Sammy.

Silly man, since you think CO2 is the cause of global warming then give us your explanition as to how it does it ....... if it can't store up the solar energey it absorbs. Let's see how you pull that outta yer arse.

TerryRC wrote: Terry, step outside in your skivvies today ...... and see how long that "hot CO2" keeps you warm.

It was your argument that the CO2 would have to "stay hot", not mine.

OH, surprise, surprise, ....... its same ole, same ole TRC. Wonders never cease, do they.

CO2 keeps heating the earth up cause it stores the heat to do it with ....... but CO2 won't keep yer arse warm because it don't store any heat to do it with.

It Didn't Start With Climategate, TerryRC 33948 It Didn't Start With Climategate, TerryRC 33948 It Didn't Start With Climategate, TerryRC 33948


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Post by TerryRC Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:11 am

I don't have to, Willy has been doing that for weeks n' week.

No, he hasn't.

Making people respect the rights of others has nothing to do with socialism.

Can't you find your own words, you lying pansy?

Because I am an honest and truthful "educating" bully.

You fib all of the time and quote sources you don't understand.

I saw you get owned on the Gazette site when you started talking about "pyrons" in a AGW argument. That was a good one.

You tried to character attack me by questioning an observation on an unrelated subject THAT I NEVER EVEN MADE (re: DDT).

Yep. You are real honest.

Silly man, since you think CO2 is the cause of global warming then give us your explanition as to how it does it ....... if it can't store up the solar energey it absorbs. Let's see how you pull that outta yer arse.

First, I don't blame it all on CO2. There are other gasses that do the same. Also there are other factors like cloud cover and ice cover (albedo) involved. At least get my stance correct. It is the honest thing to do.

CO2 absorbs heat and re-releases it in a random direction. Some goes back to earth to be absorbed and re-radiated or reflected. Some is grabbed by other greenhouse gasses to be re-radiated again. Most goes to space.

The more gas molecules present, the less likely an individual heat wave is to get back to space unmolested. In other words, the more gas, the less heat that directly leaves the system.

The heat bounces around like a pachinko ball, or a beam of light in a room full of small mirrors.

Think of it like a reflective blanket with small holes in it. Some heat gets out, some heat gets reflected back at you. The blanket, itself, doesn't absorb the heat.

OH, surprise, surprise, ....... its same ole, same ole TRC. Wonders never cease, do they.

CO2 keeps heating the earth up cause it stores the heat to do it with ....... but CO2 won't keep yer arse warm because it don't store any heat to do it with.


A typical meaningless Sammy statement.

Stop putting words in my mouth. Attributing an incorrect statement to me is not honest.

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Post by SamCogar Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:26 am

TerryRC wrote:I don't have to, Willy has been doing that for weeks n' week.

No, he hasn't.

Making people respect the rights of others has nothing to do with socialism.

Can't you find your own words, you lying pansy?

Because I am an honest and truthful "educating" bully.

You fib all of the time and quote sources you don't understand. GIMME A BREAK, it is you that lack any scientific understanding.

I saw you get owned on the Gazette site when you started talking about "pyrons" in a AGW argument. That was a good one. GIMME A BREAK, you are so stupid and clueless that you didn't realize that post was ficticious satire ....... even though I signed it "Eritas".

You tried to character attack me by questioning an observation on an unrelated subject THAT I NEVER EVEN MADE (re: DDT).

Yep. You are real honest.

Silly man, since you think CO2 is the cause of global warming then give us your explanition as to how it does it ....... if it can't store up the solar energey it absorbs. Let's see how you pull that outta yer arse.

First, I don't blame it all on CO2. There are other gasses that do the same. Also there are other factors like cloud cover and ice cover (albedo) involved. At least get my stance correct. It is the honest thing to do. No one can keep your stance correct because you can't make up your mind which which side of the fence to stand on.

CO2 absorbs heat and re-releases it in a random direction. Some goes back to earth to be absorbed and re-radiated or reflected. Some is grabbed by other greenhouse gasses to be re-radiated again. Most goes to space.

The more gas molecules present, the less likely an individual heat wave is to get back to space unmolested. In other words, the more gas, the less heat that directly leaves the system. No shidt, Dick Tracy, where did you get your first clue?

The heat bounces around like a pachinko ball, or a beam of light in a room full of small mirrors. Sure it does, but only it that beam of light strikes one of those small mirrors ...... which is about as likely as "throwing a 'F' at a rolling doughnut" except for when there is a high percentage of H20 vapor (clouds, mists, fogs).

Think of it like a reflective blanket with small holes in it. Some heat gets out, some heat gets reflected back at you. The blanket, itself, doesn't absorb the heat. HORSESHIDT, you best be thinking of it like a fishnet with extremely large holes in it.

If the Sunlight was striking as many gas molecules as you think it is then you wouldn't be able to see any farther than say 10 feet in front of you.

DUMBASS, haven't you ever been out in or driven your car when it was really foggy?


OH, surprise, surprise, ....... its same ole, same ole TRC. Wonders never cease, do they.

CO2 keeps heating the earth up cause it stores the heat to do it with ....... but CO2 won't keep yer arse warm because it don't store any heat to do it with.


A typical meaningless Sammy statement.

Stop putting words in my mouth. Attributing an incorrect statement to me is not honest. YADA, YADA, YADA, ....we know, ..... you were for AGW before you were against AGW and now you are betwixt and between AGW because you are trying to CYA to prove you have been right all along.

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