"Did you plug the hole yet, Daddy?"

Is Obama guilty of bungling the BP oil spill? Is this his Katrina?

When Sec. Ken Salazar said that we should "push BP out of the way", it was Admiral Mullen of the Coast Guard who asked, "And replace them with what?" I doubt there was much Obama could do. Why would he insist yesterday that despite all evidence to the contrary (the explosion was April 20 and Obama appointed a director of operations on May 1) that the spill had been his first priority since "Day One"?

I think that above all the fact that Obama ran as the anti-Bush further highlights his incompetence and the skimpiness of his list of accomplishments. The guy has the least impressive resume of any President in history and the least accomplished administration ever. Expectations should be plenty low. Consequently, he has not disappointed.

How can he? He is the hole.

ohio county wrote:Is Obama guilty of bungling the BP oil spill? Is this his Katrina?

When Sec. Ken Salazar said that we should "push BP out of the way", it was Admiral Mullen of the Coast Guard who asked, "And replace them with what?" I doubt there was much Obama could do. Why would he insist yesterday that despite all evidence to the contrary (the explosion was April 20 and Obama appointed a director of operations on May 1) that the spill had been his first priority since "Day One"?

I think that above all the fact that Obama ran as the anti-Bush further highlights his incompetence and the skimpiness of his list of accomplishments. The guy has the least impressive resume of any President in history and the least accomplished administration ever. Expectations should be plenty low. Consequently, he has not disappointed.

Ohio, yes, Obama is a joke as is his administration, and the vast majority of congress. What is illustrated is the incompetence of government. Remember, the government is the one that makes the rules regarding drilling in the ocean and what safe gaurds are to be in place. It is the government that sends the inspectors to confirm the rules are followed. It is the government that has the ability to make drillers comply with the rules. However, is as a former supervisor of mine once said, the one's protected by regulation are those that are regulated. That is seen in this mess. Stories are emerging where inspectors were paided off and of the cozy relationship between the oil companies and the administration. Even Obama and his administration can't hide from that fact. BP sent money to the Obama campaign, just as it did many other politicians on both sides of isle. Basically it is the cost of doing business.

People put far far to much faith in the politicians and government. Of all the institutions on earth government is the most corrupt and unreliable. It makes little difference the party either, in the end it is plain corrupt.

Is this his Katrina?

Yes, it will forever be known as the Black Katrina.

Is Obama guilty of bungling the BP oil spill?

Weeelllllll, ....... yes and no.

He played both ends against the middle and is hoping for a win, no matter how bad of one it is.

I figure that Obama knew that he didn't know what he was doing and didn't have anything to it with even if he knew ..... so he figured that it was better if he did NOTHING ..... and take the blame for that, ........ rather than to take charge and screw it up even worse and get blamed for both.

From the minute "Obama took charge" it would have been his baby and BP would have been "off the hook" from that day foreward.

The fed had skimmers there by the second day.

So, you brainiacs, what technology or equipment does the US have to fix a problem like this.

What exactly SHOULD Obama have done considering the only people that have the experience and know-how to fix this are the OIL COMPANIES.

I can't wait to hear the well thought out and constructive answers.

I would be asking this question if Bush was still in office.

Also, I didn't blame Katrina on Bush, I blamed it in the Gov. of LA at the time.

The only fault that lay with Bush is the incompetents he put in FEMA.

The fault of Obama is he refuses to do the right thing. He refuses to order the US military to go in and take over the operation. He refuses to accept offers of assistance. He refuses to do what has been done successfully in the past and he refuses to demand the purchase of new technologies and employ them.

There are plenty of experts who are former OIL COMPANY employees. Obama needs to listen to them, instead of ignoring them and allowing BP to do whatever the hell it damn well pleases.

Why should the government be involved at all? BP and the drilling companies have the expertise to stop the spill, but it is going to take time. Think about this a little bit especially before you reply. It is the Federal Government who made the rules and regulations covering drilling operations. It is also the federal government who had inspectors in place and the ability to exact fines or shut drilling down if these regulations were not adheared to. However, it was also the federal government through it's inspectors that turned a blind eye to the very rules and regulations that was suppose to prevent events like this one, yet were being broken. Additionally, we find that BP along with other oil producers made campaign contributions to both sides of the political spectrum, that includes Obama. They bought their protection.

Additionally, not only are inspections a joke and regulations ignored, but there is a limit on the liability of the company regarding the damages it causes. If you listened to the news you should have heard this discussed, especially now that the politicians want to raise the liability cap. Of course even if the liability cap is raised, it does no good in this case because the event has already taken place and it is unconsitutional to pass an ex post facto law.

Isn't it about time we quit running to the politicians and started standing on our own two feet? If you really want to put a stop to stuff like this, the first thing that needs to happen is to get the government out. What then needs to take place is the government of the people, by the people and for the people needs to establish a court system that tries cases based on objective law. When I say objective law, I mean law written in plain everyday english understandable by all, not in lawyerize. Further instead of allowing individauls to hide behind corporations, hold the individauls, not the corporation accountible for the total liability. Liability means complete liability for the total cost of cleanup, including all damages.

From what I have read so far, it was a cluster on that platfrom before this happened. I'm willing to bet that that cluster wouldn't have happened if the BP folks knew full well they would be held completely individually liable for any mess they made. As the law is now, they are protected from full accountibility.

Cato

I have thought about it, Cato. I've thought about it long and hard.

The conduct of BP has put a significant portion of the US environment and economy in peril. BP needs to be made to pay for this, no doubt. The law needs to change, but that doesn't negate the fact that every available option to mitigate the damage must be employed.

Tell me, don't you agree this is a vital national security issue? Don't you think everyone and everything that depends upon the Gulf of Mexico and it's coast is worthy of federal intervention?

BP should no longer be allowed to operate in this country. The callous disregard for our nation, her people, and her ecosystem cannot be ignored.

Stephanie wrote:I have thought about it, Cato. I've thought about it long and hard.

The conduct of BP has put a significant portion of the US environment and economy in peril. BP needs to be made to pay for this, no doubt. The law needs to change, but that doesn't negate the fact that every available option to mitigate the damage must be employed.

Tell me, don't you agree this is a vital national security issue? Don't you think everyone and everything that depends upon the Gulf of Mexico and it's coast is worthy of federal intervention?

BP should no longer be allowed to operate in this country. The callous disregard for our nation, her people, and her ecosystem cannot be ignored.

I've thought long and hard about it also. Everyone is welcome to thier opinion. Speaking for myself however, all I see when I see Obama down there shooting off at the yap and one more politican using a mess to elevate himself in the eyes of the public. Afterall like many others of the political crowd he took money from BP. He can now save himself alot of time and trouble by just shutting up and going away. In fact, the only intellegent government official down there right now is the coast guard admiral. When asked about the Fed taking over and replacing BP, he posed the question, with what or who are you going to replace them with.

Yes, Stephanie BP and their subcontractors doing the drilling have made a quite a mess. You say they should pay all the cost of cleanup, and I agree. However, the politicians have placed a liability limit on companies drilling in Gulf. When a company reaches that limit that is all they pay. Additionally, the politicians are the ones that are ultimately responsible for establishing and enforcing the regulation these companies operate by. Those regulations are worthless if the politicians and beauracrats responsbile for enforcing them turn a blind eye for whatever reason.

The cold hard truth is that this is going to take time to fix. It is going to take time to stop the leak and it is going to take time and money to clean the aftermath up. Much of the money to clean up the mess is going to come out of the taxpaying public's pocket. If you want to blame someone for this mess, blame the politicans and their greed. No law is worth anything if it is not enforced.

Cato,

You're assuming I don't blame politicians and their greed. I do.

That does not change the fact that Obama has allowed the situation to deteriorate by not using every means available to stop the flow of oil and to clean up the oil that has already spewed.

It will take a lot more of the public's money to clean-up the oil after it hits the beaches, Cato. The more beaches hit the longer it will take for the economy and the ecology to recover. The greater the contamination, the more lives, human and wildlife, destroyed.

No law is worth anything if it is not enforced.

What laws were not being enforced?

ziggy wrote:

No law is worth anything if it is not enforced.

What laws were not being enforced?

I have no idea what regulations were not being enforced. I am just going by what I have heard on the news. According to most of the major news reports on this subject inspectors had been turning a blind eye to violations.

Stephanie wrote:Cato,

You're assuming I don't blame politicians and their greed. I do.

That does not change the fact that Obama has allowed the situation to deteriorate by not using every means available to stop the flow of oil and to clean up the oil that has already spewed.

It will take a lot more of the public's money to clean-up the oil after it hits the beaches, Cato. The more beaches hit the longer it will take for the economy and the ecology to recover. The greater the contamination, the more lives, human and wildlife, destroyed.

From what I understand of the affair, all available means have been brought to bear on stopping the flow.

I have no idea what regulations were not being enforced. I am just going by what I have heard on the news. According to most of the major news reports on this subject inspectors had been turning a blind eye to violations.

Oh jeez. All you know is what the "major news" reports? Then you don't know much, do you? The "major news" is in the entertainment business, not the fact reporting business. Now we understand why you are usually so in the dark about the real world.

Stephanie wrote:The fault of Obama is he refuses to do the right thing. He refuses to order the US military to go in and take over the operation.

What could the U.S. military do as regards a runaway oil well that the oil industry could not do better? Does the U.S. military have experience and expertise in runaway oil well management?

If you are simply looking for a political scapegoat- one who had virtually nothing to do with or to contribute to solving the current poroblem- then yeah, Obama's your man. But if you are looking for a solution for the current oil problem in the Gulf of Mexico, then he ain't.

Ziggy,

I'm not looking for a scapegoat. I'm looking for the individual elected President of the United States of America to step up and take charge of the situation. It's pretty damn pathetic that when America is faced with a crisis of this magnitude the President of the United States does less than nothing. He ignores offers of assistance from our allies. He ignores the advice and counsel of experts without direct ties to BP.

The man is claiming he's "in charge". Those are Obama's words, not mine. Tell me, what has he done to demonstrate he even knows what BP is doing out there at any particular point in time? Administration officials were squaking at the media a couple of days ago about Top Kill being in progress for several hours only to learn BP had suspended operations and didn't inform the EPA or the Coast Guard or the President.

I'm not demanding that Barack Obama be an expert on how to stop the flow of oil. I'm not demanding that Barack Obama be an expert on how to prevent the oil from hitting the beaches and contaminating the marshes. I'm not expecting Barack Obamato be an expert at cleaning up the oil that has made landfall, or the oil that will inevitably contaminate more of the Gulf Coast.

I am demanding that the President of the United States use every means available to stop the flow of oil, recapture as much oil as possible from the water, and provide the equipment and manpower to clean it up what does make landfall.

That man isn't an expert at much of anything other than making promises he doesn't intend to keep. I know that. I also know that the EPA and other federal agencies employ all kinds of scientists and oil industry experts who he can look to for advice.

By the way, how is it you figure that man had nothing to do with creating the problem? How many violations has BP had since President Obama took the oath of office? How many felonies does a foreign owned company get to commit on US soil before this President says enough is enough?

Why is it that this President and this Congress are so enthusiastic about the government take-over of private US industry when it suits their interests, although they are not experts in auto manufacturing or insurance or banking, yet when the callous disregard for US lives, property, industry and environment they just sit back and wait for the criminals to fix things.

Did you not see the 60 Minutes interview of Mike Williams? You think it's acceptable that the same group of criminals that created this unprecedented disaster are now entrusted with resolving it.

Should we base our actions on the long run or the short run? Should we base our actions on benefits or fear of failure?

ziggy wrote:

I have no idea what regulations were not being enforced. I am just going by what I have heard on the news. According to most of the major news reports on this subject inspectors had been turning a blind eye to violations.

Oh jeez. All you know is what the "major news" reports? Then you don't know much, do you? The "major news" is in the entertainment business, not the fact reporting business. Now we understand why you are usually so in the dark about the real world.

That the best you can do? Why don't just refer to me as an ignorant hayseed SOB and be done with it? Since you are the expert why don't you tell us what laws if any have been broken.

The fault of Obama is he refuses to do the right thing. He refuses to order the US military to go in and take over the operation. He refuses to accept offers of assistance. He refuses to do what has been done successfully in the past and he refuses to demand the purchase of new technologies and employ them.

Steph, you completely ignored the question:

So, you brainiacs, what technology or equipment does the US have to fix a problem like this.

What exactly SHOULD Obama have done considering the only people that have the experience and know-how to fix this are the OIL COMPANIES.

Obama sent in the Coast Guard and Navy, BTW. Every skimmer we have is there and working.

Cato wrote:Since you are the expert why don't you tell us what laws if any have been broken.

I'm not an expert, and I don't ptretend to be. You are the one who said that regulations were not being enforced. So it is up to you to either tell us which ones, or to admit that you are just blowing political hot air.

Stephanie wrote:Ziggy,

I'm not looking for a scapegoat. I'm looking for the individual elected President of the United States of America to step up and take charge of the situation.

But why? What expertise does he have to offer? Why is he anu more qualified to be in charge than you or me?

It's pretty damn pathetic that when America is faced with a crisis of this magnitude the President of the United States does less than nothing. He ignores offers of assistance from our allies. He ignores the advice and counsel of experts without direct ties to BP.

What experts? In a crisiis lots of people are so-called "experts".

The man is claiming he's "in charge". Those are Obama's words, not mine.

That does not mean that he is in charge- nor that he ought to be. It's just political hype. That is what politicians do.

Tell me, what has he done to demonstrate he even knows what BP is doing out there at any particular point in time?

He does not know. And that is why he should not be "in charge".

I'm not demanding that Barack Obama be an expert on how to stop the flow of oil. I'm not demanding that Barack Obama be an expert on how to prevent the oil from hitting the beaches and contaminating the marshes. I'm not expecting Barack Obamato be an expert at cleaning up the oil that has made landfall, or the oil that will inevitably contaminate more of the Gulf Coast.

I am demanding that the President of the United States use every means available to stop the flow of oil, recapture as much oil as possible from the water, and provide the equipment and manpower to clean it up what does make landfall.

That would be all well and good if he had any capabilities in that regard. But what is the evidence is there that he has anything but a flare for bombast political rhetoric?

That man isn't an expert at much of anything other than making promises he doesn't intend to keep. I know that. I also know that the EPA and other federal agencies employ all kinds of scientists and oil industry experts who he can look to for advice.

Advice on how to stop a runaway oil well? I doubt it.

By the way, how is it you figure that man had nothing to do with creating the problem? How many violations has BP had since President Obama took the oath of office? How many felonies does a foreign owned company get to commit on US soil before this President says enough is enough?

I don't know. As I told Cato, you are the one making the charge. So you tell us.

Why is it that this President and this Congress are so enthusiastic about the government take-over of private US industry when it suits their interests, although they are not experts in auto manufacturing or insurance or banking, yet when the callous disregard for US lives, property, industry and environment they just sit back and wait for the criminals to fix things.

Because they don't know any better.

Did you not see the 60 Minutes interview of Mike Williams? You think it's acceptable that the same group of criminals that created this unprecedented disaster are now entrusted with resolving it?

I did not see that interview. But I still do not see that putting Obama "in charge" or the oil debacle in the Gulf of M. would be any better than Bush putting "Brownie" in charge of hurricane recovery. Both were/are but political showmen who wouldn't know hits from shinola.

What exactly SHOULD Obama have done considering the only people that have the experience and know-how to fix this are the OIL COMPANIES.

Obama sent in the Coast Guard and Navy, BTW. Every skimmer we have is there and working.

The OIL COMPANIES have experts. Not all experts are currently employed by any OIL COMPANY, and only a minority are employed by BP.

Every skimmer the US has is there.....what about the skimmers other governments have offered to send? Why doesn't he accept the help that is offered?

Why is he anu more qualified to be in charge than you or me?

He is the President of this nation. A job he wanted, campaigned for and is elected to. If he isn't willing or able to step up and take charge of national disasters, he should resign.

The 60 Minutes piece I'm speaking of is available here. Watch the interview, then tell me you think BP should be allowed to control the situation in the Gulf.

Your callous attitude about the situation, your insistance that government regulators did not turn a blind eye (similar to your stance regarding the UBB disaster) leads me to believe you have no genuine interest in ANYBODY mitigating the economic or environmental damage. There is a reason why enviromentalists and their organizations are not screaming about how BP has been allowed to continue operating refineries and off-shore drilling. You're not interested in lessening the damage from this disaster. I think the goal is to end oil operations in this country and to hell with the consequencers.

You're going to have to work long and hard to convince me I'm wrong at this point.

Stephanie wrote:

Why is he any more qualified to be in charge than you or me?

He is the President of this nation. A job he wanted, campaigned for and is elected to. If he isn't willing or able to step up and take charge of national disasters, he should resign.

But again, what good would it do? What expertise does he have to lend to the situation? There is nothing in the Constitution about the president taking charge to mitigate national disasters other than military attacks / invasions and internal insurrections.

Your callous attitude about the situation, your insistance that government regulators did not turn a blind eye (similar to your stance regarding the UBB disaster) leads me to believe you have no genuine interest in ANYBODY mitigating the economic or environmental damage.

It is not "insistance that government regulators did not turn a blind eye" to ask Cato what laws were not "enforced" or to ask you what "violations" took place since Obama became president. For there to be "violations" and for there to be "enforcement" there has to be laws in place to enforce and to have violated. Dick Cheney's energy task force and industry lobbyists effectively lobbied Congress to exempt the major energy industries from almost all environmental laws.

There is a reason why enviromentalists and their organizations are not screaming about how BP has been allowed to continue operating refineries and off-shore drilling.

You are not reading what I am reading. The past 5 weeks or so that is about all that is coming from "environmentalists and their organizations"- blazing criticisms of BP, of the Obama adminsitration for promoting even further off-shore drilling and of Congress for rolling back environmental laws during the Bush administration.

You're not interested in lessening the damage from this disaster. I think the goal is to end oil operations in this country and to hell with the consequencers.

You are wrong- just as I could be wrong about your primary interest is to find political scapegoats for what we likely agree is an environmental nightmare that should have been avoided.

I don't care if you blame Obama for every detail of it if it helps your psyche and your emotional angst to do that. Obama is a political jackass who deserves most or all of the ridicule he gets. But I just hate seeing my forum friends taking such a narrow political view of an environmental disaster that was predicatble and almost inevitable after the Federal Energy Act of 2005 was developed in secret by Dick Cheney and his energy task force, enacted by Congress after massive industry lobbying, and then signed into law by then President Bush.

I have nothing vested in Obama. I don't give a flying duck about his political image. But if you really want it to start ending this nightmare and to start an effective cleanup, then put almost anyone but Obama in charge. Has he not done enough harm already?

You're going to have to work long and hard to convince me I'm wrong at this point.

One thing I have learned in 43 years of marriage is that a woman cannot be convinced that she is wrong until reality saps her strength to argue what she already knows in her heart is wrong. And Ms. Ziggy would likely say the same thing about men- and she would be at least partly correct. So you and I will likely will not live long enough to "convince" the other that we are wrong about most anything we hold a strong mindset about.

Stephanie wrote:Your callous attitude about the situation, your insistance that government regulators did not turn a blind eye (similar to your stance regarding the UBB disaster) leads me to believe you have no genuine interest in ANYBODY mitigating the economic or environmental damage.

At UBB the government issued thousands of citations. But the rules & regulations on how to prosecute for those violations are such that Massey's lawyers were able to avoid the harshest of penalties- shutdown of the UBB mine. More than 40 years after MSHA was established, Congress still allows almost endless appeals to mine citations issued by MSHA. Agencies are limited by the scope and limitations of the laws and implementing regulations they are charged to administer. Congress can override and re-write the limiting regulations agencies promulgate for their friends in various industries anytime it has the balls to do so. But until we change the way election campaigns are financed, pigs will grow wings and fly before Congress or the WV legislature grows that much balls.