"Did you plug the hole yet, Daddy?"

ziggy wrote:
At UBB the government issued thousands of citations. But the rules & regulations on how to prosecute for those violations are such that Massey's lawyers were able to avoid the harshest of penalties- shutdown of the UBB mine. More than 40 years after MSHA was established, Congress still allows almost endless appeals to mine citations issued by MSHA. Agencies are limited by the scope and limitations of the laws and implementing regulations they are charged to administer. Congress can override and re-write the limiting regulations agencies promulgate for their friends in various industries anytime it has the balls to do so. But until we change the way election campaigns are financed, pigs will grow wings and fly before Congress or the WV legislature grows that much balls.

That entire paragraph is false Ziggy and I think you know it. First, the appeals process is a standard American right, along the lines of innocent until proven guilty so to blame that is just wrong. The government knew TWO years prior to the explosion that Massey was appealing nearly every citation, why they were appealing every citation and how resolve the issue and do away with the backlog yet MSHA did NOTHING to solve that problem.

As for the law that limited Massey from closing down the mine, wow, it turns out, it wasn't a law after all. It was in inter-agency memo that changed the way a regulation was enforced that could have been reversed just as easily as it was enacted.

And it turns out, it was a 'computer glitch' that prevented MSHA from sending Massey a Pattern of Violations letter, the first step in the process of shutting the mine down.

I'm not excusing Don Blankenship or Massey because I've seen their safety record as well as their reportable incident rates and their safety violations and I understand how to read them. I also know the government can take actions against different branches of a corporation if violations warrant, which they do at Massey Energy. As such, I believe the Board at Massey needs to reign in Blankenship or be removed but for you to exempt MSHA and the government in this accident is flat out wrong.

While I haven't read enough about the oil spill to affix blame, I do know from the get go, MSHA's hands are dirty regarding Upper Big Branch and Massey Energy and as such, MSHA is just as culpable as in the deaths of those 29 men and in my humble opinion, heads should roll in that agency as well.

The last thing I will say about this is I am not even remotely suprised that you excuse government officials and their corruption and instead shift all of the blame blame to what you perceive corrupt corporations and election laws.

I'm not excusing Don Blankenship or Massey because I've seen their safety record as well as their reportable incident rates and their safety violations and I understand how to read them. I also know the government can take actions against different branches of a corporation if violations warrant and I believe the Board at Massey needs to reign in Blankenship or be removed but for you to exempt MSHA and the government in this accident is flat out wrong.

I am not exempting anyone. I blame government at the highest levels- Congress, and in WV the state legislature, and enforcement agencies from the President who appoints federal agency heads to the MSHA inspector who leaves a mine site knowing that within minutes of when he is gone that Massey will send the men that he (MSHA inspector) ordered out of that UBB mine numerous times for unsafe conditions back into that mine only minutes later.

Just as it is automobile driver(s) and not the WV State Police who are primarily responsible for an automobile wreck that causes multiple deaths, it is Massey and its employees, not MSHA, who had the primary responsibility to not kill 29 men at UBB. The automobile driver is in the best position and control to see that his/her car is operated such as to get from here to there without having a wreck. Likewise Massey, not MSHA, was in the best position and control to see that its mine is operated such as to not blow up. Massey and its lawyers are not unlike the drunk driver who gets arrested 10 times for DUI, but has a lwayer who keeps him out of jail and just keeps on driving until he causes a multi-fatality wreck.

ziggy wrote:Just as it is automobile driver(s) and not the WV State Police who are primarily responsible for an automobile wreck that causes multiple deaths...

Yes you are excusing government officials when you repeat that hypothetical that I have debunked on at least 5 occasions.

Once more, if the WV State police are assigned a specific number of drivers and told they are to keep them from breaking the law and that is their ONLY responsibility and they fail in their assigned duty, and then we later find out that not only did they fail, they ignored violations and faulty behavior on behalf of the driver, yes they are equally culpable in those deaths.

Strike 6. Try again.

Once more, if the WV State police are assigned a specific number of drivers and told they are to keep them from breaking the law and that is their ONLY responsibility and they fail in their assigned duty, and then we later find out that not only did they fail, they ignored violations and faulty behavior on behalf of the driver, yes they are equally culpable in those deaths.

State Police are assigned a specific number of drivers- which is all the drivers on the highways of West Virginia. Sometimes that assignment is for a specifc part of a specific road. But even then, it is the individual driver, and not the state police, who is in the best position and control to operate the car such as to avoid a wreck- just as with Massey and its coal mines. And even if state police were assigned full time to a single specific driver, it is STILL primarily the driver who is responsible for the operation of his vehicle. And even of MSHA assigned inspectors full time to one single mine, it is STILL the mine operator who is primarily responsible for the safe operation of the mine.

You are a lousy umpire. I have hit a home run every time. So throw me another pitch.

State Police are assigned specific areas, not specific people to follow around with no other assignments, which is the ONLY way your hypothetical would be comparable.

Strike 7.

You didn't address any of the points I made regarding MSHA. You are excusing every MSHA employee, from the inspector on the ground, to the area supervisor to Joe Main.

That's w strikes in and of itself.

8, 9 and 10.

Keep trying.

It went over the middlefield fence, ump!

Old, tired AND weak.

Strike 11

12

Amy Carter has asked her daddy, Jimmah, "Should we go nookier on that oil well?"

The OIL COMPANIES have experts. Not all experts are currently employed by any OIL COMPANY, and only a minority are employed by BP.

Every skimmer the US has is there.....what about the skimmers other governments have offered to send? Why doesn't he accept the help that is offered?

Steph, just answer the question:

So, you brainiacs, what technology or equipment does the US have to fix a problem like this?

What exactly SHOULD Obama have done considering the only people that have the experience and know-how to fix this are the OIL COMPANIES?

Perhaps we should put you in charge, Steph. Put those armchair quarterback shills to work...

Likely, the solution is drilling a relief well to divert the pressure so that rupture can be capped. I'm no engineer, know nothing about underwater drilling other then what I read but that seems to be the consensus from what I've heard and read in just a few hours of limited research.

I have no authority to get this done. The President of the United States does. Apologist can excuse his poor leadership but that doesn't change the facts. President Obama has dropped the ball big time regarding this disaster and only a blind partisan cannot see that.

I have no authority to get this done. The President of the United States does. Apologist can excuse his poor leadership but that doesn't change the facts. President Obama has dropped the ball big time regarding this disaster and only a blind partisan cannot see that.

Where in the COTUS does the POTUS have the authority to step in and take over the operation of a private company.

...government employees are lazy bums...

So are the unemployed.

...government employees are lazy bums...

BTW, taking things out of context is the same thing as lying.

Liar.

Well, I have to console my son. We just got back from the animal emergency room because his kitten is very sick.

I'll be back so you can slam on me for no real reason save to be a viscous prick.

Likely, the solution is drilling a relief well to divert the pressure so that rupture can be capped. I'm no engineer, know nothing about underwater drilling other then what I read but that seems to be the consensus from what I've heard and read in just a few hours of limited research.

Which is exactly what is being done, you armchair engineer, you.

ziggy wrote:

Cato wrote:Since you are the expert why don't you tell us what laws if any have been broken.

I'm not an expert, and I don't ptretend to be. You are the one who said that regulations were not being enforced. So it is up to you to either tell us which ones, or to admit that you are just blowing political hot air.

Oh Well, I guess I'm just blowing political hot air then. and CNN, HLN, ABC, FOX, and MSNBC all have commited libel.

TerryRC wrote:I have no authority to get this done. The President of the United States does. Apologist can excuse his poor leadership but that doesn't change the facts. President Obama has dropped the ball big time regarding this disaster and only a blind partisan cannot see that.

Where in the COTUS does the POTUS have the authority to step in and take over the operation of a private company.

Who said anything about taking over the operation of a private company skippy?

TerryRC wrote:...government employees are lazy bums...

So are the unemployed.

Yes, but they are 4 rungs up on the ladder above state employees, who only have snake oil salesman and transvestite prostitutes below them.

TerryRC wrote:
Liar.

Um, aren't you just repeating what I said earlier. I guess it's true that mimmicking is the highest form of flattery. Thanks Scooter.

TerryRC wrote:I'll be back so you can slam on me for no real reason save to be a viscous prick.

I've yet to slam you junior. I agreed with you whole heartedly, pointed out you were lying when the only recourse you had on the Palin thread was to pull out the race card and invited you to my house, to which you have very wisely declined. Owned yes, slammed no.

And had I known agreeing with you hurt your delegate feelings so easily, I would have done it years ago skipster. If only you had been right about something before this week...

http://www.adn.com/2010/05/08/v-printer/1269786/bp-has-a-history-of-safety-faults.html

Just Google "BP felonies"! Two previous felonies, Ziggy. If you watched the interview I gave you a link to I think it becomes obvious you can add at least one more to that total. Then there are all of those other violations.

Go on, blame Bush and his administration for the current disaster in the Gulf of Mexico. I do too, they made the deal with the devil that is BP. However, since Obama has taken office there have been numerous other violations and they have not only continued to allow BP to operate up until the explosion, they continue to allow BP to operate after the explosion. Now he's allowing the company who caused the disaster to call the shots on stopping the flow of oil. That is not acceptable to me. I don't know why it would be to you.

I support off-shore drilling. I support coal mining. I support wind farms and nuclear energy and everything that provides the energy America needs. When companies show a pattern of failure to protect lives and property and the ecosystem, I expect them to no longer be issued permits.

That is true of Massey Energy and it is true of British Petroleum. Obama has been in office for 15 months. He can read a teleprompter I expect him to be able to read news articles the same as I can. I expect him to suspend BP's operations in the United States. This means, British Petroleum no longer calls the shots on when to stop Top Kill or what to do next.

How is it you are unaware of the 60 Minutes interview? How is it a guy like you gets to claim ignorance to the statements Mike Williams? Political scapegoat? Please, I blame the Senators and the Representatives and the Presidents of both parties who have allowed this all to go on. However, right now Barrack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid are the people in charge. They are doing nothing, so I blame them.

Steph, just answer the question:

So, you brainiacs, what technology or equipment does the US have to

fix a problem like this?

What exactly SHOULD Obama have done considering the only people that have the experience and know-how to fix this are the OIL COMPANIES?

Perhaps we should put you in charge, Steph. Put those armchair quarterback shills to work...

Why is the only equipment that can be utilized to protect the coast and clean up the oil already owned by the USA? Why can't we accept offers of assistance to avert further calamity? We always help, why can't we accept help?

Why does the United States government employ experts formerly employed by any industry? Are they all "shills"? Why not just throw our collective hands up in the air and say, "Oh well....there's nothing to be done now! Those Mayans were correct after all."

Steph, just answer the question:

So, you brainiacs, what technology or equipment does the US have to fix a problem like this?

What exactly SHOULD Obama have done considering the only people that have the experience and know-how to fix this are the OIL COMPANIES?

Perhaps we should put you in charge, Steph. Put those armchair quarterback shills to work...

Why is the only equipment that can be utilized to protect the coast and clean up the oil already owned by the USA? Why can't we accept offers of assistance to avert further calamity? We always help, why can't we accept help?

Why does the United States government employ experts formerly employed by any industry? Are they all "shills"? Why not just throw our collective hands up in the air and say, "Oh well....there's nothing to be done now! Those Mayans were correct after all."

Oh Well, I guess I'm just blowing political hot air then. and CNN, HLN, ABC, FOX, and MSNBC all have commited libel.

I don't know if they have committed libel. But they all blow a lot of political hot air. And if all we do is repeat what they say as the gospel truth, then so are we.

ziggy wrote:

Oh Well, I guess I'm just blowing political hot air then. and CNN, HLN, ABC, FOX, and MSNBC all have commited libel.

I don't know if they have committed libel. But they all blow a lot of political hot air. And if all we do is repeat what they say as the gospel truth, then so are we.

There is only two ways to go with this, they lied or they didn't. If they reported falsely then they have commited libel, if not then they didn't.

I understand that the US Inspector General has taken issue with way the Mineral Management Service has been handling affairs. However, I guess ABC is just spouting hot political air. Read the report here

Is Obama going to plug it or film it?

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9G2LOB82&show_article=1

ohio county wrote:Is Obama going to plug it or film it?

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9G2LOB82&show_article=1

Obama and his garbage ain't going to do a darn thing, except see how much political gain they can get. Afterall that is what politicans do be they republican or democrat.