Life is sweet in America

So, in summation, you have accused me of being philosophically inconsistent by saying that I lack conviction. You have also accused me of lying when I said I was trying to stay away from personal attacks.

You accuse me of these things yet can't provide a specific example.

On that note, I will leave you all for awhile. I have to patch a leak in the roof before the next t-storm comes in.

I will be waiting for Willy's apology for accusing me of lying about my "at will employment".

I will also be waiting for Aaron's evidence that I reverse my convictions all of the time.

The latter is easy to say, harder to show.

All one has to do to see how wishy washy is to read your post. It's evident to anyone with more then a 5th grade education. You're "citation please" is just another lame attempt to disprove what is clear to anyone that knows you.

All one has to do to see how wishy washy is to read your post. It's evident to anyone with more then a 5th grade education. You're "citation please" is just another lame attempt to disprove what is clear to anyone that knows you.

Your inability to show a specific example says that you are making baseless personal attacks.

If what you say is so obvious to anyone that knows me, surely a specific example would not be out of place.

You debate like someone with a fifth grade education.

TerryRC wrote:You debate like someone with a fifth grade education.

Umm, I hate to be the one to break it to you TC but some might consider that a personal insult.

So did I misunderstand you when you said you don't do that any more?

TerryRC wrote:Regardless, my employment is at will, which means exactly what it says. Watch. When a new Commissioner is elected, people WILL be let go in the executive division and I doubt any reason will be given.

NO SHIT, ........ and DA, those are Political Appointed Jobs, they come and go with the elected person.

DUH, that's how that WVU Band Teacher got the job of Director of the WV Economic Development Authority or whatever its called. And to maintain their positions they all have to be re-appointed to their positions at the end of each respective Election Cycle.

NO SHIT, ........ and DA, those are Political Appointed Jobs, they come and go with the elected person.

DUH, that's how that WVU Band Teacher got the job of Director of the WV Economic Development Authority or whatever its called. And to maintain their positions they all have to be re-appointed to their positions at the end of each respective Election Cycle.

You didn't look at my link, Sam. Anyone in the Department is subject to termination at any time for no justification.

Just read the link before you try and baffle us with your knowledge.

Umm, I hate to be the one to break it to you TC but some might consider that a personal insult.

So did I misunderstand you when you said you don't do that any more?

First, you were the one that implied that I am so transparent a fifth grader can see it. Actually, you said "better than". My mistake. I should have said you debate like a SIXTH grader.

Second, I said "like", which is a true observation as making accusations without providing evidence is elementary school behavior. That makes it less of a personal attack than an observation.

Sam does 'em right. His latest fave is to say I am a piece of shit.

So, you implied that my opinion is of less value because I lack convictions. Surely you would never make accusations without specific examples to back that up? A person with real CONVICTIONS would never do that.

I'd ask you for those specific examples but I'm done justifying my actions to anyone but my employers and people I respect.

I'm not saying that my convictions are absolutely inflexible. Those that absolutely refuse to change their beliefs, even in the light of greater understanding or knowledge, are FANATICS and are to be feared. I'm not saying that you are that way, I'm just making an observation.

In light, though, of that last statement and your opinion that people that can change their convictions are not to be respected, one must wonder if you are a fanatic or someone that is capable of changing their convictions.

You don't need to answer, but you should think about it.

I'm not making an accusation Terry, I'm merely stating my opinion. Isn't that what we do on forums? I will say that you seem to bet bent out of shape pretty easily when someone speaks of or about you in a negative manner. Perhaps you should work on that. If you could learn to control that, maybe you wouldn't spend so much time attacking others.



As for my convictions, I'm good but thanks for your observations.

I'm not making an accusation Terry, I'm merely stating my opinion. Isn't that what we do on forums.

When you use them as an attack or a debating point, it really shouldn't be done anywhere - not and call it debate.

As for my convictions, I'm good but thanks for your observations.

I'm good with mine, also. Of course they aren't as valid or as important as yours because they may have (in someone's opinion) shifted or may some day do so, but I can live with that.

TerryRC wrote:I also have worked in the public sector. Yes, I know it's not winning the lottery and I know that most don't make 6 figure salaries. However, I know that your statement regarding serving at the will and pleasure of the Commissioner or whoever is bogus. You may not have civil service protection, but you cannot be fired on someone's whim either.

You are dead wrong.

http://www.wvagriculture.org/Policy/Definitions.htm

2.5. "Employment" means that employment with the Department is for an unspecified duration and constitutes "at-will" employment. Therefore, the employment relationship may be terminated at any time, with or without good cause or for any or no cause, at the option either of the employer or employee, with or without notice.

I will expect your apology at any time.

And as I have said, you have grounds to contest an at will firing, since as your manual which I read pointed out you cannot participate in the greivance board hearing you still have grounds within the agency and winthin civil court. The manual may say alot of things, but as Ziggy likes to remind us it is in the court system where the rubber really meets the road.

Instead of using this as some explaination as to why you job isn't all roses, why don't you quit if you think it is too harsh?

And as I have said, you have grounds to contest an at will firing, since as your manual which I read pointed out you cannot participate in the greivance board hearing you still have grounds within the agency and winthin civil court. The manual may say alot of things, but as Ziggy likes to remind us it is in the court system where the rubber really meets the road.

You said I was lying about what "at will" meant and the conditions of my employment. I showed you that what I said was almost word for word from the terms of my employment AS RECORDED BY MY EMPLOYER.

I knew you wouldn't admit you were wrong.

TerryRC wrote:
When you use them as an attack or a debating point, it really shouldn't be done anywhere - not and call it debate.

I'm not using it as an attack or a debating point. I'm merely stating what I believe to be true which has been solidified by your continued comments.

Keep em coming.

I'm not using it as an attack or a debating point. I'm merely stating what I believe to be true which has been solidified by your continued comments.

Which ones in particular point to my moral shortcomings? Curious minds want to know.

Anyway it is untrue, of course, that you don't use your "opinion" as a debate point. You make such statements to decrease the value of my arguments because my "convictions" aren't up to your standards.

That is OK. I'll live.

Instead of using this as some explaination as to why you job isn't all roses, why don't you quit if you think it is too harsh?

I don't think it too harsh. I was pointing out that not all public employees have it like Sam implies.

As I said, the only bad part of the job are the judgmental ignorant that assume I am lazy or greedy merely because I work for the state, partly because of misrepresentation by people like Sam.

You're biggest flaw is your inability to get past your hatred for religion. It rules you.

You're biggest flaw is your inability to get past your hatred for religion. It rules you.

All religion? Which ones have I said should be eliminated? Do I hate religion if I like buddhists? If I'm best friends with a fundamentalist? Which specific statements have I made that illustrate my profound hatred for ALL RELIGION?

Your biggest flaw is that you can't back up your statements. You make pronouncements without supplying evidence. It is intellectually impoverished. It is what politicians do.

TerryRC wrote:And as I have said, you have grounds to contest an at will firing, since as your manual which I read pointed out you cannot participate in the greivance board hearing you still have grounds within the agency and winthin civil court. The manual may say alot of things, but as Ziggy likes to remind us it is in the court system where the rubber really meets the road.

You said I was lying about what "at will" meant and the conditions of my employment. I showed you that what I said was almost word for word from the terms of my employment AS RECORDED BY MY EMPLOYER.

I knew you wouldn't admit you were wrong.

I think you need to go back and read what I wrote. I read your manual also or parts of it and I know what it says. I also know what the law says.

The director of the agency I worked for was a so called "at will" employee of the Board of Directors. The Board of Directors he worked for hated his guts, but they didn't dare terminate him. They didn't terminate him because if they didn't have grounds they faced either criminal offence since the director would have claimed a political firing or they would have faced civil issues.

Dispite what Gus Gouglass says or your blessed manual says, there is no true "at will" employee in government, with the exception of political appointees. You are not an appointee.

While Sam and I don't agree on everything, the one thing I will agree with him on is government jobs carry some pretty sweet benefits including the protection of those who are less than willing to work and the over payment of many who aren't worht the powder and lead to get rid of. I have seen it first hand.

One last thing, if you think you are being treated badly, then quit and go else where.