Re: Less than half of students proficient in science

by Cato Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:11 am

Aaron wrote:
Cato wrote:However, the root of the problem is to be found with the politicians that the public continues to send back to office. They set the, legislation, work rules, and policies that education operates under.

The only problem with your soapbox rant Cato is that the House Education Committee has 23 members. The committee chair, Delegate Poling is a retired educator. Vice Chair Delegate Paxton is a retired educator. Minority Chair Delegate Duke is a retired educator. Minority Vice Chair Delegate Sumner is a current educator. Of the other 19 members, 16 or 17 are former educators.

The Senate Education Committee has 4 or 5 of the 14 members that have a history in education.

Teachers are in fact the individuals who are writing legislation, work rules, and policies that education operates under and considering of the 55 counties, the BOE is the largest employer in 34 counties, it is those teachers support that are passing the legislation that has been written by teachers. Nothing goes on in the school system of this state without the approval of teachers.

As I said, teachers are the biggest obstacle in improving education in this state and your soapbox speech does nothing but reinforce that fact.

Cato wrote:
Stephanie wrote:Government education is swimming in adminstration because the teachers and their unions demanded it.

Teachers and teacher's Unions have demanded it, that is true. However, demanding is one thing caving in to that demand is quite another. The fact is Unions get only what management allows. In this case Management, i.e. the legislature, caved and allowed it.

In this case, management, i.e. the Legislature is dominated by teachers. They compromise the majority of the House Education Committe and of the 34 State Senators and 100 Delegates, over 70% either have a background in education or have a spouse with a background in education. Teachers not only demand administration, as legislatures, it is teachers who have as you state "caved" and it is teachers who spend nearly 60% of our tax dollars on education.

Then it would seem to me that the logical course action would be to remove them during the next election cycle. Since you obviously beleive as strongly as you do, why don't you run for the legislature?

by Cato Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:13 am

Aaron wrote:It's not a conclusion, it's a fact that anyone with the slightest modem of sense can see. What about it do you not understand?

Most all of it!!

by Aaron Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:13 am

I'll take it then that you agree with me in that teachers are the biggest obsticle in education. Maybe your not as dense as I had previously thought.

by Aaron Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:14 am

Cato wrote:
Aaron wrote:It's not a conclusion, it's a fact that anyone with the slightest modem of sense can see. What about it do you not understand?

Most all of it!!

You'll have to be more specific. I can't teach algebra to someone who doesn't understand math.

by Cato Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:37 am

Aaron wrote:
Cato wrote:
Aaron wrote:It's not a conclusion, it's a fact that anyone with the slightest modem of sense can see. What about it do you not understand?

Most all of it!!

You'll have to be more specific. I can't teach algebra to someone who doesn't understand math.

Well, you need to know math to be able to teach it.

Tell me something Aaron. If I remember correctly you were a plant manager. Who bore ultimate responsibility to the operation of the plant you or the employees?

by Aaron Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:42 am

Which part of what I stated do you not understand Cato. I can't correct you if you don't ask. Remember there are no stupid questions, only stupid people. Now ask away.

by **Stephanie** Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:44 am

Cato wrote:Then it would seem to me that the logical course action would be to remove them during the next election cycle. Since you obviously beleive as strongly as you do, why don't you run for the legislature?

Perhaps Aaron doesn't run to serve in the Legislature because he can't retire at 52 or 55 with a full pension. When he finds employment, it is unlikely he'll be able to take off work the months of January & February. He lives and works in the real world, unlike those who work(ed) in public education.

by Cato Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:03 am

Stephanie wrote:
Cato wrote:Then it would seem to me that the logical course action would be to remove them during the next election cycle. Since you obviously beleive as strongly as you do, why don't you run for the legislature?

Perhaps Aaron doesn't run to serve in the Legislature because he can't retire at 52 or 55 with a full pension. When he finds employment, it is unlikely he'll be able to take off work the months of January & February. He lives and works in the real world, unlike those who work(ed) in public education.

So are you saying that only teachers have the ability to run for office? That must be what you are saying, since you seem to be saying that only retired folks can run and only teachers can retire at 52 or 55.

by Aaron Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:04 am

I didn't bother addressing his legislature question for the same reason I ignored his question about my work Stephanie. Both are lame attempts by a desparate man to change the conversation because he's been taken out behind the woodshed and had his ass handed to him regarding the control teachers have over education in West Virginia.

On this issue, he's another bleeding heart liberal feeding at the trough of the teachers union and he doesn't have the courage to stand up and tell educators that they are in fact part of the problem and until and unless they get their act together, they will not be part of the solution.

by Cato Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:05 am

Aaron wrote:Which part of what I stated do you not understand Cato. I can't correct you if you don't ask. Remember there are no stupid questions, only stupid people. Now ask away.

Just answer me this and I'll be happy. Tell me something Aaron. If I remember correctly you were a plant manager. Who bore ultimate responsibility for the operation of the plant you or the employees?

by Aaron Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:07 am

Cato wrote:
Aaron wrote:Which part of what I stated do you not understand Cato. I can't correct you if you don't ask. Remember there are no stupid questions, only stupid people. Now ask away.

Just answer me this and I'll be happy. Tell me something Aaron. If I remember correctly you were a plant manager. Who bore ultimate responsibility for the operation of the plant you or the employees?

I'm not playing your games Cato. If I said something you don't understand, you can eihther ask away and I'll clarify it or you can remain stupid. It's your choice.

by **Stephanie** Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:13 am

Cato wrote:
Stephanie wrote:
Cato wrote:Then it would seem to me that the logical course action would be to remove them during the next election cycle. Since you obviously beleive as strongly as you do, why don't you run for the legislature?

Perhaps Aaron doesn't run to serve in the Legislature because he can't retire at 52 or 55 with a full pension. When he finds employment, it is unlikely he'll be able to take off work the months of January & February. He lives and works in the real world, unlike those who work(ed) in public education.

So are you saying that only teachers have the ability to run for office? That must be what you are saying, since you seem to be saying that only retired folks can run and only teachers can retire at 52 or 55.

I'm saying the Legislative schedule is designed so that only people who are retired, or wealthy, or employed by an individual or organization that believes it can benefit from an employee serving in the Legislature is able to hold that office, Cato.

Very few other occupations allow a person to retire at such a young age without suffering some sort of penalty. Yes, there are some, but almost all of them work for the government in some capacity. Nearly all private companies in some way penalize an individual for retiring before well into their 60's. A person can't support a family on their Legislative salary, so you get what we have.....teachers, retired teachers, lawyers, and coal company employees and the like.

by **Stephanie** Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:15 am

Aaron,

I know about Cato. I don't know why I waste my time. I do have a question for you......

You understand Brady Paxton's situation and his bias toward teachers etc. Yet a couple of years ago you questioned why I didn't vote for Paxton....said he was such a nice guy etc. Have you had a change of heart or do you still think Paxton is who should represent us in the Legislature. If so,why?

by Cato Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:17 am

Aaron wrote:I didn't bother addressing his legislature question for the same reason I ignored his question about my work Stephanie. Both are lame attempts by a desparate man to change the conversation because he's been taken out behind the woodshed and had his ass handed to him regarding the control teachers have over education in West Virginia.

On this issue, he's another bleeding heart liberal feeding at the trough of the teachers union and he doesn't have the courage to stand up and tell educators that they are in fact part of the problem and until and unless they get their act together, they will not be part of the solution.

Nope, Both are honest questions that you don't have the BALLs to answer.

I have watched you post for sometime. One of things you will come back at people with when they complain about is what are they don't about it. I have been the receipient a few times myself. I just posed the question to you.

As far as the question about your work, you didn't answer because you know as well as I that management bears to ultimate responsibility for the people under them. If present management can't do their job, the normal move is to replace them. Maybe that is what happened to you.

As far as the remainder of your post goes, I expected nothing less than your usual childish response.

by Aaron Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:19 am

That was about 5 or 6 years ago and yes I've had a change of heart. Brady Paxton as a bumbling fool, a tool of the teachers union who will tell anyone what they want to here. He's a joke that as useless as it will be, if I am still a Putnam County resident in 2012, I will do everything I can to see him defeated.

by **Stephanie** Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:22 am

Happy to hear that!

by Aaron Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:25 am

I will throw you a bone here Cato. I know what you're doing so I'll answer your question like this. Teachers in classrooms operate under rules, regulations and policies that teachers in Charleston write as legislatures that the rank and file of teachers support.

As I've stated, teachers are the biggest obstacle regarding improving education in this state and other then try to divert the conversation, you've done nothing but show your bias and ineptness in this conversation.

In your hypothetical, the employee and management are one and the same. So I'm wondering, do you have anything relevant to say or are you going to continue bumbling along the same ignorant line of prejudiced thoughts while you feed at the liberal trough of educataion?

by Aaron Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:41 am

Cato wrote:Nope, Both are honest questions that you don't have the BALLs to answer.

I will give you one piece of advice Cato. If you're going to try and act big and tough, you should have used red font.

Cato wrote:Nope, Both are honest questions that you don't have the BALLs to answer.

Bluse is a passive color while red is an aggressive color that conveys feelings such as anger and passion.

Okie dokie.

by Cato Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:33 pm

Aaron wrote:
Cato wrote:Nope, Both are honest questions that you don't have the BALLs to answer.

I will give you one piece of advice Cato. If you're going to try and act big and tough, you should have used red font.

Cato wrote:Nope, Both are honest questions that you don't have the BALLs to answer.

Bluse is a passive color while red is an aggressive color that conveys feelings such as anger and passion.

Okie dokie.

I know blue is a passive actually femine color. You can read into that what you want.

by Aaron Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:35 pm

There's nothing to read into it. You are what you are and one thing you are is consistent. You've been proven wrong time and again but instead of slinking away or bring up relevant points, you continue to spout on about nothing.

by Cato Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:17 pm

Aaron wrote:I will throw you a bone here Cato. I know what you're doing so I'll answer your question like this. Teachers in classrooms operate under rules, regulations and policies that teachers in Charleston write as legislatures that the rank and file of teachers support.

As I've stated, teachers are the biggest obstacle regarding improving education in this state and other then try to divert the conversation, you've done nothing but show your bias and ineptness in this conversation.[/qoute]

What profession they had is irrelevent once they were elected to office. They were charged, as elected officials, with policy and law.

I did a bit of research while you were blubbering away. There are 19 House members that are or were educators. 8 are on the Education Committee in the House. There are only 2 present or former educators in the Senate and only 1 on the Education committee. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't it take both houses and a signature fromt he governor to make law. My question is with approximately 15% of the Legislature being made up by teachers, what the world is the rest of the people legislature doing. 15% is certainly a long way from any majority.

Are Teachers part of the problem, I've never denied that. Are they the main problem, no they are not, government and the public is, especially parents.

Aaron wrote:In your hypothetical, the employee and management are one and the same. So I'm wondering, do you have anything relevant to say or are you going to continue bumbling along the same ignorant line of prejudiced thoughts while you feed at the liberal trough of educataion?

Insulting me isn't helping your argument any. But I guess if it makes you feel like a man, have at it.

by Aaron Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:44 pm

I didn't insult you Cato. I simply stated the truth. In your hypothetical, management and the workers are one in the same in the legislature.

As for what you state about 15% being teachers, first, I didn't say they were all teachers. I said they were either teachers or had direct ties to educators. For instance, you stated only 8 members of the House Education committee were educators and that is simply not true. Nine are educators, at least 2 are children of educators, a 4 or 5 have spouses or sibling that are educators and one is a service personnel in the school system.

While only 15% maybe be educators, a larger number then that a larger number, somewhere around half, have direct ties to educators and at ~70% have ties to education. You can't refute the argument so you try to muddy the water. Standard Cato tactics, that's all you have. It's really kind of sad and in truth, is why no one really takes you serious. I'm only replying becasue I'm putting off doing accounting work.

by Cato Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:21 pm

Aaron wrote: I didn't insult you Cato. I simply stated the truth. In your hypothetical, management and the workers are one in the same in the legislature.

You stated, "So I'm wondering, do you have anything relevant to say or are you going to continue bumbling along the same ignorant line of prejudiced thoughts while you feed at the liberal trough of educataion?"

I guess I'm just too stupid to read, huh, Aaron.

Aaron wrote: As for what you state about 15% being teachers, first, I didn't say they were all teachers. I said they were either teachers or had direct ties to educators. For instance, you stated only 8 members of the House Education committee were educators and that is simply not true. Nine are educators, at least 2 are children of educators, a 4 or 5 have spouses or sibling that are educators and one is a service personnel in the school system.

While only 15% maybe be educators, a larger number then that a larger number, somewhere around half, have direct ties to educators and at ~70% have ties to education. You can't refute the argument so you try to muddy the water.

I won't argue the point regarding my count. I went to the legislature website and looked up each individual. I missed by one, so shoot me. However, your statement about all the additional ties to education, you know this how? Enlighten this ignorant hayseed.

Aaron wrote: Standard Cato tactics, that's all you have. It's really kind of sad and in truth, is why no one really takes you serious.

You certainly must, or you wouldn't be replying back to me

Aaron wrote:I'm only replying becasue I'm putting off doing accounting work.

No you are replying, because you have to have the last word.

by Aaron Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:44 pm

I've more then backed up my statements Cato. Unless you have something relevant, I'll consider your part of the conservation finished.

by Cato Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:12 pm

Aaron wrote:I've more then backed up my statements Cato. Unless you have something relevant, I'll consider your part of the conservation finished.

Let's see you've told me that teachers are the major problem, because they oppose every proposal that comes along, you've concluded that I'm a complete moron, and you have accused me of living at the liberal tough. Outside of that you haven't done much of anything.

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