Quote of the Day

I think your exaltation of atheism shows, TerryRC, that while you are no bigot, your lack of religious belief influences your worldview every bit as much as my religious belief does mine.

I don't believe that to be a fair statement, Sheik. I don't exalt atheism. I just don't believe the government should have anything to do, whatsoever, with the religion business. It is pretty clear that some of the country's founders felt exactly the same way.

Think of me as an originalist.

I'm not even sure that I would classify myself as an atheist. I have no certain knowledge that there are no gods. I have never seen any objective evidence either way.

McCain's pastor, John Hagee's thoughts on where the country should go:

Read this.

If you have cable, watch some of these cats on TBN (Trinity Broadcast Network, or The Brainwashing Network, as I like to call it).

Not only are these people crazy, they are dangerous.

Am I afraid of religionists? You bet.

Oops... my apologies, Hagee isn't his pastor, McCain just sought his endorsement.

Did McCain seek his endorsement or was it offered by Hagee and not turned down by McCain?

If you are suggesting, however, that McCain is getting by with something that Obama could not, I'd have to agree. I think one's church attendance should not be scrutinized in either case--we have a voting record for both Obama and McCain and we have their statements and we should vote based on those--I think Wright is a yutz, but he doesn't make me dislike Obama any more. And, for what it's worth as a non-Obama voter, I am "satisfied" with Obama's response.

TerryRC wrote:"In God We Trust" was put on our money in the '50's because some misguided zealots wanted to separate us from the "godless communists".

It was about that time "...under God... was put into the pledge. It wasn't in the original Pledge.

People that think the government shouldn't have done things like that in the first place are just trying to put them back the way they were.

Why does the coach need to lead his team in a prayer before a SCHOOL SPONSORED event? Does he need god on his side to win? What if one of the kids doesn't want to pray? Does he sit the bench, get beaten up by the other kids?

I don't care if the coach want to pray but why force it on the other kids. Doesn't the bible tell people to pray in the closet, anyway?

Regardless, from today's Gazette, Readers Voice:

In reference to the person who wants "In God We Trust" taken off the U.S. money, you are no different than a terrorist. You might say you are an atheist, but in my opinion, atheists are just like terrorists.

Another prominent religious leader:



I think I'll keep pushing back, thanks. The more people dislike me for it, the more it makes me sure I am doing the right thing.

TerryRC,

Ya know I love ya. I don't dislike you more for your thoughts.

Why do you think people dislike you for disagreeing? Have I ever given evidence of that?

I disagree with what you believe, but that's not the same as disliking you.

Terry,

The decision I posted forbids the coach from bowing his head when his students lead the prayer.

I opposed to the government, or agents of the government, forcing students or other citizens to pray. I am equally opposed to the government interferring with their employees participation in public prayer. I don't believe we give up all of our rights as a condition of employment.

As far as the pharmacists are concerned, the notion that a pharmacist would be fired for failing to fill a prescription to induce an abortion is counterproductive. Most regions of this nation are in dire need of qualified pharmacists and most of the pharmacists in this country were licensed before that drug was put on the market here in the US.

Doctors can choose not to perform abortions. Most doctors will not perform abortions. Yet pharmacists are now required to dispense an abortion in a bottle? With the shortage of pharmacists in this country, that is a position that may well need reexamined.

In another thread I commented that some people have standards and principles and they live by them. That pharmacist is a good example of such a person. Preventing him, and others like him, from working in their field only continue to make the pharmacist shortage in this country worse.

I can't imagine you believe that I dislike you. I'd like to think that not everyone who disagrees with me dislikes me. I don't agree with anybody all of the time, not even those I love and respect most. Ask my husband! lol

Did McCain seek his endorsement or was it offered by Hagee and not turned down by McCain?

He actively sought it.

The decision I posted forbids the coach from bowing his head when his students lead the prayer.

Well, it does give the appearance of sanction by a school official.

Doctors can choose not to perform abortions. Most doctors will not perform abortions. Yet pharmacists are now required to dispense an abortion in a bottle? With the shortage of pharmacists in this country, that is a position that may well need reexamined.

Doctors are trained to do many different procedures. Pharmacists have one task - to fill a script.

What if a christian scientist became a pharmacist? They, by the way, do not believe in the taking of ANY drugs. Should they be fired when they refuse to fill any 'scribs?

Absolutely. They aren't living up to their sole reason for being employed.

I don't think most of you actively dislike me. Well, perhaps Sam and Aaron do.

Regardless, considering how people comment on atheists and agnostics and their evil, terroristic ways, I'm convinced that many have forgotten their history and their sanity.

I told you a long time ago Lib, you take this stuff here way to personal.

It ain't about like or dislike or any of that. This, to me, is a venting place. You really need to lighten up.

Besides, it's not my fault your wrong 87.1458745215989% of the time.

Since this seems to be the level of your discourse...

Sez you!

You're the one whining about who does and doesn't like you lib.

It's a cyber space message board.

Volumn's.

Pointing out the truth isn't "whining".

Face it, people have and are legislating their religious beliefs, or at least trying to. People also have discriminatory attitudes towards the non-devout.

Even when presented with evidence of that, you make non-relevant comments in an effort to avoid facing it.

That is more childish than any whining.

What you need to face is that the legislature works the way it does and all through history every sect attempts to legislate their agenda. That is why our founding fathers set up our government the way they did, in an effort to keep a majority rules mob mentality ruling and to keep the majority from mandating their will. I think it's worked pretty well over the past ~220 years.

I looked for the law banning discrimation against atheist. I couldn't find it. I don't suppose you can provide me a link, can you Lib?

I've tried to tell you that there is no constitutional gurantee for you to not be offended. I don't know why you can't understand that.

TerryRC wrote:
The decision I posted forbids the coach from bowing his head when his students lead the prayer.

Well, it does give the appearance of sanction by a school official.

Doctors can choose not to perform abortions. Most doctors will not perform abortions. Yet pharmacists are now required to dispense an abortion in a bottle? With the shortage of pharmacists in this country, that is a position that may well need reexamined.

Doctors are trained to do many different procedures. Pharmacists have one task - to fill a script.

What if a christian scientist became a pharmacist? They, by the way, do not believe in the taking of ANY drugs. Should they be fired when they refuse to fill any 'scribs?

Absolutely. They aren't living up to their sole reason for being employed.

I don't think most of you actively dislike me. Well, perhaps Sam and Aaron do.

Regardless, considering how people comment on atheists and agnostics and their evil, terroristic ways, I'm convinced that many have forgotten their history and their sanity.

I was sitting here mulling what you and I may have in common, Terry. At first all I was coming up with is neither of us believes in "god" and we're both transplants to WV. Then I thought to myself, "Aaron doesn't like me either!" LOL

Ack........Is the appearance of a school official sanctioning prayer so offensive that an individual's right to practice their religion should be infringed? I don't think so, really.

Pharmacists do a lot more than "fill a script" and they have an awful lot of responsibility. I wonder if perhaps that is why there is such a shortage of them..... they don't get the respect and appreciation they deserve. The pharmacist is the person who makes sure we aren't taking a deadly combination of medications. They explain drug side effects and interactions. A good pharmacist is a valuable resource for consumers. I have friend who is a pharmacist in a hospital in Portland, ME. She mixes medications.

Why would a Christian Scientist become a pharmacist? Wouldn't that be like you becoming an evangelical minister?

When it comes to the religious affiliation (or lack of) others have, I try very hard not to let that influence my opinion of them as a person. History and personal experience has taught me that evil and insanity aren't limited to any particular belief system. To my knowledge no group has cornered the market on compassion, empathy, or intellect either. (Buddhists do seem to be awfully kind and peaceful, though)

It isn't easy. I have a tendency to distrust fundies of all stripes. Initially I am always suspicious. I figure that's ok.......they're suspicious of me too!

As far as TerryRC is concerned.......I admire your intelligence and enjoy your wit! I always try to remember to double check for typos and spelling errors when I post to you! That's a good thing.....sometimes I get too lazy with it.

I looked for the law banning discrimation against atheist. I couldn't find it. I don't suppose you can provide me a link, can you Lib?

No religious test to hold office...

Anti-discrimination laws in the workplace that concern religious beliefs...

Look them up. Convince yourself. I already know you are wrong.

Like I said, I'm not an atheist as I have no certain knowledge of god, pro- or anti-. I don't have to be one to dislike how they are treated.

Pharmacists do a lot more than "fill a script" and they have an awful lot of responsibility. I wonder if perhaps that is why there is such a shortage of them..... they don't get the respect and appreciation they deserve. The pharmacist is the person who makes sure we aren't taking a deadly combination of medications. They explain drug side effects and interactions.

All of which is peripheral to their main role - dispensing drugs.

Why would a Christian Scientist become a pharmacist? Wouldn't that be like you becoming an evangelical minister?

Why would anyone become a pharmacist if they aren't going to dispense drugs that a doctor orders for someone? I used the example that I did to show how foolish it is to use religious excuses as a reason to not do your job.

Fill the script or get another job. If I became an evangelical minister, I would certainly expect to get fired because I won't preach fire and brimstone.

As far as TerryRC is concerned.......I admire your intelligence and enjoy your wit! I always try to remember to double check for typos and spelling errors when I post to you! That's a good thing.....sometimes I get too lazy with it.

Thank you. I try...

TerryRC wrote:Pharmacists do a lot more than "fill a script" and they have an awful lot of responsibility. I wonder if perhaps that is why there is such a shortage of them..... they don't get the respect and appreciation they deserve. The pharmacist is the person who makes sure we aren't taking a deadly combination of medications. They explain drug side effects and interactions.

All of which is peripheral to their main role - dispensing drugs.

Why would a Christian Scientist become a pharmacist? Wouldn't that be like you becoming an evangelical minister?

Why would anyone become a pharmacist if they aren't going to dispense drugs that a doctor orders for someone? I used the example that I did to show how foolish it is to use religious excuses as a reason to not do your job.

Fill the script or get another job. If I became an evangelical minister, I would certainly expect to get fired because I won't preach fire and brimstone.

As far as TerryRC is concerned.......I admire your intelligence and enjoy your wit! I always try to remember to double check for typos and spelling errors when I post to you! That's a good thing.....sometimes I get too lazy with it.

Thank you. I try...

Terry,

You're mistaking religion for conviction. There are many people who are not fundies who consider abortion murder. I am living proof, and I'm not alone. I don't consider abortion murder because of anything in the Bible, Koran, or Vedas. I have other compelling reasons. Certainly there are an awful lot of sheeple who hold their views based soley upon what some member of the clergy tells them, but not all.

My daughter and I had a very long discussion about this very issue last night. This very issue may well prevent her from being a pharmacist. She is actively exploring other career options before she invests all the time, money and effort involved in becoming a pharmacist and being required to dispense a medication that kills an unborn child. Think about the result of that.

My intelligent, compassionate daughter may choose not to go into field where a critical shortage exists because some people want to be able to kill their unborn children on demand. The nation will have one less pharmacist. Doesn't that make you wonder how many other Katie's exist out there? Should the rest of the community be denied the benefit of all those who would be pharmacists if not for this drug?

My right to choose to kill my unborn child shouldn't infringe on the care of everyone else in the community. That is what is happening.

Madalyn Murray O'Hair

I had to think on that one, Ohio.

She didn't want her son attending MANDITORTY bible reading on his public school. She went to court and won. She was just demanding the school adhere to the COTUS.

That is the ONLY time she used the courts, at least that I can find.

What did she get for her beliefs - persecution and murder.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madalyn_Murray_O'Hair[/url]

And Aaron doesn't think people are discriminated against for not being religious (or christian).

Wrong about what? That you have a right not to be offended. I don't think so Lib.

As for religioius discrimation, that's covered by the 1st amendment.

You have read the Bill of Rights, haven't you TC?

Aaron,

Do you think you could grow up and stop the silly name calling? It's childish and annoying.

TerryRC wrote:Madalyn Murray O'Hair

I had to think on that one, Ohio.

She didn't want her son attending MANDITORTY bible reading on his public school. She went to court and won. She was just demanding the school adhere to the COTUS.

That is the ONLY time she used the courts, at least that I can find.

What did she get for her beliefs - persecution and murder.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madalyn_Murray_O'Hair[/url]

And Aaron doesn't think people are discriminated against for not being religious (or christian).

Nope LIB, I've never said people aren't discriminated against for not being religious. I have my beliefs but I still would object to any of my children being forced to attend a mandatory bible reading or mandatory prayer. That's unconstitutional and is covered and apparently was used successfully in this case.

What I don't have a problem with and where I think people like you go overboard is voluntary prayer led by, oh I don't know, say a coach with a team before a ball game. There is nothing in the constitution to prevent that but people like you whine and cry about state sponsored religion. It's garbage.

I've been in enough huddles, on both sides of the issue and if a kid doesn't want to participate, then he doesn't participate. If he's offended, then walk away. But there's nothing in the constitution that prevents one person from leading another in a voluntary consensual prayer.

But people like you want to push YOUR ‘religion’ on the rest of us because of your misguided beliefs but you claim it’s Christians pushing their beliefs. Please LIB!!!

But people like you want to push YOUR ‘religion’ on the rest of us because of your misguided beliefs but you claim it’s Christians pushing their beliefs. Please LIB!!!

How is the lack of a religion a religion?

That is like saying not collecting stamps is a hobby.

You are wrong in that you refuse to admit that christians DO legislate their religious beliefs.

Fine and dandy. Bet you would scream bloody murder of it was a bunch of islamists trying to do the same thing.

What I don't have a problem with and where I think people like you go overboard is voluntary prayer led by, oh I don't know, say a coach with a team before a ball game. There is nothing in the constitution to prevent that but people like you whine and cry about state sponsored religion. It's garbage.

Fine, can I lead your kids in a prayer to Satan before the game? Perhaps a little prayer to Ganesha?

Sorry, if a school official leads it, it isn't considered voluntary.

Tell you what, keep your prayer out of my school and I won't think in your church.

Again, doesn't your bible admonish you to pray in a closet?

People that make a big display of their faith by praying publicly usually have none.

But people like you want to push YOUR ‘religion’ on the rest of us because of your misguided beliefs but you claim it’s Christians pushing their beliefs. Please LIB!!!

BTW, you can pray anywhere, anytime. I just ask that you do not request the state to sanction it.

Have I closed your churches? Have I declared you unfit to hold office because of your beliefs?

Please. Christians are not oppressed in this country, no matter how you whine about it.

Wrong about what? That you have a right not to be offended. I don't think so Lib.

As for religioius discrimation, that's covered by the 1st amendment.

You have read the Bill of Rights, haven't you TC?

I never said I have a right to not be offended. Strawman much? That sounds exactly like something Rush Lamebaugh or Mann Coulter might say.

I do have a right to demand my government be free of your religious laws.

You're mistaking religion for conviction. There are many people who are not fundies who consider abortion murder. I am living proof, and I'm not alone. I don't consider abortion murder because of anything in the Bible, Koran, or Vedas. I have other compelling reasons. Certainly there are an awful lot of sheeple who hold their views based soley upon what some member of the clergy tells them, but not all.

I have moral problems with the use of some pesticides. Even so, my job demands I give recommendations to use some of these pesticides that I think the use of to be unethical.

Do you think I should keep my job if I refuse to do those recommendations? Keep in mind that I, just like the pharmacists, knew what I would be asked to do as part of my job before I was hired.

Stick to your ethics or stick to your job. It is just that simple, sometimes.