Democrats: Double check your ballots and cross fingers...

http://wvgazette.com/News/200810250560

Will WV be the Florida or Ohio of the 2008 election?

Several people have already had their votes switched from Democrat to republican, according to a front page Gazette article today.

And that is just the ones that the voters themselves caught.

How many others have there been which were not caught?

Short answer: no one knows.

Our republican Sec. of State is singing the praises of the guy who sold her these new machines, but as it turns out, he mysteriously left the company several months ago and the company says he has nothing to do with them.

Ohio officials who bought the same system have discovered "serious security flaws", and are subject to being "compromised or modified....before, during, or after an election" and that safeguards "cannot be built into the system".

They also run the risk of losing votes from simply having a power outage.

Why can't we just go back to paper ballots you mark and just drop them in a box?

sodbuster wrote:Why can't we just go back to paper ballots you mark and just drop them in a box?

In Putnam County, you can. I'm pretty sure the touch screen is a choice the voter makes.

Does anyone want to wager a BLT from Tudors (I don't care for their B and G) that if McCain wins WV, democrats will swear the race was stolen from Obama by these machines?

Well aaron if the machines are recording Dem votes as Republican dont you think they have a pretty good case??

If I believed that were the case Sherm, I would say yes.

As I don't think they are, no I don't think they have a case.

I think from day 1 this has been a sham perpetrated by Obamamites to distort what they believe the results will be.

My 2 cents.

Aaron,

I voted using a paper ballot in the GOP primary back in May, right here in Putnam County. It is my hope that I will have time to go vote tomorrow. If not, I will have to go on Thursday because I will be out of town next Tuesday. I'll ask for a paper ballot and let you know if they're still available.

Seems the only time votes are switching is when the voter touches the screen OUTSIDE the box for the candidate they are voting for. It has nothing to do with the machine and is purely voter error which is why Frank wasn't able to get the machine to swtich his vote.

Aaron wrote:Seems the only time votes are switching is when the voter touches the screen OUTSIDE the box for the candidate they are voting for. It has nothing to do with the machine and is purely voter error which is why Frank wasn't able to get the machine to swtich his vote.

I believe that is correct, Aaron. And if you touch on "the line" separating the boxes, it could probably go either way.

I once had a pair of glasses that were fine for reading. But they were NOT fine for walking, because my feet were not where they appeared to be. So I stumbled a lot until I got different glasses. But for reading, it did not matter whether the letters / words were where they appeared to be- as long as they were clearly discernable. I am wondering if folks having trouble voting are maybe inadvertantly seeing the voting box as in a slightly different position than it actually is. I do not think that the folks reporting having "trouble" voting (only 14 so far) are faking it. But I do think that maybe some partisans are trying to turn those few likely innocent incidences into political chaff.

Well zig why not just use paper ballots?

You want to use paper ballots because 14 out of 70,000 voters (that's how many have voted early according to this mornings news) or .0002% of the voters screwed up their screens Sherman.

So can you gurantee that there would have been a smaller percentage of problems on paper ballots?

No Aaron please read the original post.

We dont know how many have been switched.

The Ohio study showed the results to be unreliable and subject to manipulation "before, during, and after" the ballot was actually cast.

In addition, the computers are confusing, especially for elderly voters.

Paper ballots are much simpler and easier to understand.

And the original ballots are still there in the box if needed for a recount.

sodbuster wrote:Well zig why not just use paper ballots?

Because, in my opinion, paper ballots are far, far more susceptable to both honest mistakes by voters (with optical scan paper ballots) and crooked manipulations- at any level of handling- than are the electronic voting devices used in Jackson County.

I do not object to voters having a choice between optical scan paper ballots and electronic voting machines- as someone said they have in Putnam County. I would chose the electronic voting device with paper trail verification capability. No other system that I know of keeps two separate records of the votes for purposes of canvassing / recounting.

"On Dec. 14, Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer L. Brunner released a study about her state's voting machines, called "Project Everest: Evaluation and Validation of Election Related Equipment, Standards and Testing."

"Project Everest" identifies several problems with the reliability and accuracy of Ohio's electronic voting machines, including machines provided by ES&S, beginning in 2005.

The "Project Everest" report also mentions that "serious flaws in the security of voting systems" were also found in other states including: California, Florida, New Jersey and Connecticut.

SysTest Labs of Denver, retained by Brenner to analyze Ohio's voting machines, found iVotronic voting software could be "compromised and modified without detection, conceivably occurring before, during or after an election," presenting "serious risks to election integrity."

SysTest found the risk of vote fraud or losing votes "appears magnified by the fact that safeguards cannot be built into the system," in other forms such as paper storage cards.

ES&S machines are also vulnerable to power failures, which can erase already-scanned ballots.

"If such ballots are not reprocessed," SysTest reported, "those votes will not be counted."

Well you guys seem to have more "faith" than I do.

Especially since our power goes out so often over here on this end of the county.

The West Virginia machines all have battery backup power. Even if the power were off all day, the election could go on. They actually run on battery power. All the 110 volt plug in does is keep the battery at full charge.

And as I said, the paper trail is integral to the operation of the macnine. The machine will not operate without the paper roll in place. And just as a home printer warns if / when the printing ink is low, so does the Votronic voting machine model used in WV, and further, when it senses that the printer ink is low, it stops operating until a new ink cartridge is inserted.

I do not know much about the Ohio voting machines. But I do know about the WV machines.

I don't know about the rest of you yahoos but when Ziggy attested to Betty Ireland's competence I had him pegged as an honest broker of information.

Well the Good Book says Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

I do not have enough faith I suppose.

I cant see where my ballot goes when I touch the screen.

I would rather mark a ballot I can see and put it in a box I can see and lock it up.

To me computerization is just change for the sake of change.

What happens when you go home and some republican poll worker unlocks that box?

sodbuster wrote:...change for the sake of change.

Sounds like an Obama commericial but i digress...

Same thing as happens when I go home and he gets access to my cyberballot I guess.

But at least he would have to physically be there to tamper with the ballot box.

You could have a guard there watching the computer and it could be accessed from somewhere else while the guard was there watching and he would never know.

Also what happens if a battery terminal vibrates loose do all the votes get erased?

I dont claim to be a computer whiz but the article said they had a study done by an independent scientific outfit and they said there were problems.

Whatever happened to skepticism?

Yeah, paper will solve everything...

Aaron I explained before when I say paper ballots I am not talking about punch cards.

What I mean by paper ballots is you have the candidate's name there and a box beside it to mark your "x".

I know sherm. I just couldn't resist.

sodbuster wrote:Well the Good Book says Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

I do not have enough faith I suppose.

I cant see where my ballot goes when I touch the screen.

I would rather mark a ballot I can see and put it in a box I can see and lock it up.

Look at the paper through that little window on the left, Sodbuster. You see exactly "where the ballot goes". It's right there in black and white.

sodbuster wrote:You could have a guard there watching the computer and it could be accessed from somewhere else while the guard was there watching and he would never know.

How? The voting machines Jackson County uses are not personal computers. They are not connected to the internet.

Also what happens if a battery terminal vibrates loose do all the votes get erased?

No. The paper trail is still right there. And the pin drive retains its memory of what's been put on it.

I dont claim to be a computer whiz but the article said they had a study done by an independent scientific outfit and they said there were problems.

Are you talking about in West Virginia, or about the model of voting machines used in some other state?