Prominent Kan. Co. pol calls for paper ballots

http://wvgazette.com/News/200811020398

Well this guy points out some considerations not previously discussed.

Worth a read.

Cut losses now, or wait till we waste a few more million $$??

I just voted at Poca Middle School where they had 2 electronic machines and 8 paper machines (1 electronic and 4 paper for A-K and one and 4 for J-Z) . When we went in on our side had 2 people at the paper booths and the electronic was empty.

I chose the electronic and it took me about 2 minutes to vote and that included reading the paper ballot that printed to confirm my votes weren't stolen.

My son Donnie, thinking that since one of the paper booths was open and he didn't want to wait, took the paper ballot.

I finished before both of the other paper voters did and had to wait on Donnie for almost 5 minutes.

He's a smart boy with a fair amount of common sense.

He said he would never vote paper again.

"paper machines?"

If there were machines it was not a paper ballot as I define paper ballot.

Anyhow my concern is not how fast you can vote or how fast they are counted.

(although I cannot imagine you can vote on a machine faster than marking your "x" on a ballot.)

Given the choice, I'll go machine every time. I've never failed to vote and never will. But there's no sense in making a career out of it.

Donnie had a paper ballot where he marked an X. I waited and waited and waited for him after I had completed my vote, which took less then 2 minutes, btw.

And that did include doublechecking my votes on paper to the left of the electronic ballot as it printed out. I even changed one to make sure and it voided the first and counted the change.

Your Fears are unfounded.

You do know what FEAR is, don't you Sherrman?

False
Evidence that
Appears
Real

http://wvgazette.com/Opinion/Editorials/200811040547

Well OC and Aaron would it be too big an imposition if we asked you to just have patience and humor those of us who mistrust the computer touchscreens.

I am glad you and many of the other posters seem to have faith enough to believe your votes are "in there" and cant be removed.

But since some of us do not share your faith, why not just humor us?

How much longer does it take to mark your "x" than it does to touch the screen?

(especially since we are entering into this new political age of cooperation and conciliation?"

I would bet not more than ten seconds per ballot.

sodbuster wrote:http://wvgazette.com/Opinion/Editorials/200811040547
How much longer does it take to mark your "x" than it does to touch the screen?

As I've told you twice already Sherman, it took my 18 year old son almost 5 full minutes. No big deal at Poca Middle School with 3 people in line but if you place it someplace with long lines then you've got a situtaion on your hand.

it should not take that much longer.

All things being equal.

You would be thinking wrong as it did take that much longer.

Hell, there were people your age that were in the booth when I got there and and still there when I left.

About the only thing I can see paper ballots doing is increasing Depends sales.

also like I said above, if he used a "machine" that is not what I am referring to when I use the term "paper ballots"

He didn't use a machine Sherman. They gave him a ballot with a folder; he went into a booth and used a pencil to make his mark.

He voted EXACTLY the way you desire everyone to vote and it took a full 5 minutes longer for him to vote then it did me.

There is a reason those who run elections, particularly those with large turnouts, want to switch to machine voting.

Well aaron anecdotal stories like that do not make the case.

I will admit maybe it might take a few seconds longer to mark an "x" on each office as opposed to touching the screen.

But not 5 minutes.

I saw people take a long time with the touch screen too.

But it was because they were taking their time and apparently making their decision there on the spot.

And it took a good long while for the guy in front of me to just cast a straight Democrat ballot.

He, along with others there at the time, were obviously not comfortable with the computer touch screen.

When I was waiting on my oldest to vote at a different poll, I was reading the instructions, rules and laws regarding voting and one thing I noticed is that there is a time limit on voting with the electronic machines.

I looked around but I cound't find a time limit on the paper ballots. We're it a matter of seconds as you imply there would be a time limit on paper ballot voting as well.

The fact that there isn't is proof enough for me and there's nothing anecdotal about that. Those pesky facts Sherman.

And as I said, there's a reason those who run elections so desperately want to switch to electronic machines.

Given as smooth as things went yesterday, I think those opposed are sounding more and more like Chicken Little or the little boy crying wolf every day.

It's only a matter of time before the decision makers AND the public realize that no, the sky is not falling and no, there is no wolf and you guys become the silent minority.

Legally, there is a time limit for all voters to cast their ballots. I will try to find that and post it.

Well OC and Aaron would it be too big an imposition if we asked you to just have patience and humor those of us who mistrust the computer touchscreens.

I am glad you and many of the other posters seem to have faith enough to believe your votes are "in there" and cant be removed.

But since some of us do not share your faith, why not just humor us?

And that should go both ways, right Sodbuster?

Could you humor those of us who are concerned that any of several people could stuff the (paper) ballot box- but that the numbers of people who could "stuff" an electronic tabulator was an integral paper trail is more limited?

ziggy wrote:Legally, there is a time limit for all voters to cast their ballots. I will try to find that and post it.

Well zig when you guys were choosing these machines was the time it takes to vote a consideration?

Were there real studies comparing how long it takes to vote a paper ballot vs a touch screen machine?

As opposed to anecdotal stories like Aaron's above?

I find it hard to believe it would take more than a few extra seconds.

I don't care what you believe Sherman. You weren't there. I was. And it wasn't only there. The same thing happened at Rock Branch where my oldest voted. The electronic machines were faster then paper ballots at two locations.

I've stated it twice and you've yet to address it. So now I'll ask you straight out. Why is it that you think those who run elections, not just in WV but nationwide, want to convert to electronic balloting and do away with paper ballots? Could it be they know the sky isn't falling?

No Aaron I would just rather see a "scientific" study done as opposed to an anecdotal story.

Because I have voted paper ballots before and it did not take me that much longer. If any.

And paper ballots dont break down...

No, they just get misplaced, double marked, dems added and Republicans lost when needed and so on and so on.

The only thing I wonder is if that is nationwide or just West Virginia democrats?

Well zig when you guys were choosing these machines was the time it takes to vote a consideration?

I do not recall that it was, Sodbuster.

But one consideration was how well might voters, especially older voters, understand how to use electronic tabulators- and how much new training it would take for long-time poll workers to understand how to instruct people to vote.

The consensus was that electronic voting devices would surely be no more confusing to voters than were those "punch cards" that had to be lined up with the tabs in the actual voting device, and then punch with sufficient pressure to push out the "chad".

Well I agree with that I did not like the punch cards either.

I find it odd Sherman that you're discussing paper ballots but you've not said much about democrats big night. Why is that?

Because I resolved not to gloat or rub it in.

I remember how it was when bush won so I know you guys dont need any of that right now.

But I might mention it from time to time after you guys have had time to rest up a little....

Don't hold back on my account Sherman, especially considering I'm not a Republican. I'm an independent and I voted for who I thought would do the best job and unlike Stephanie, there are a few democrats I thought fit that bill.

Besides, if you have at it now, then when accountability time comes up, you've given me the ammo.

ziggy wrote:Legally, there is a time limit for all voters to cast their ballots. I will try to find that and post it.

The WV election code differentiates between a "voting machine" and an "electronic voting system"- and denotes different time limits for the voter to cast his ballot with each:


§3-4-18. Conducting voting machine elections generally; duties of election officers.
(1) The election officers shall constantly and diligently maintain a watch in order to see that no person votes more than once and to prevent any voter from occupying the voting machine for more than three minutes. (bolding added- Zig)

§3-4A-19. Conducting electronic voting system elections generally; duties of election officers; penalties.
(a) The election officers shall constantly and diligently maintain a watch in order to see that no person votes more than once and to prevent any voter from occupying the voting booth for more than five minutes. (bolding added (Zig)

http://www.legis.state.wv.us/WVCODE/ChapterEntire.cfm?chap=03