5 Myths About the Great Depression

From your link Shermangeneral.

There's much to like in Obama's plan. But there are two important ways he may have to go further. Most economists agree that what finally pulled the U.S. out of the Great Depression was military spending for World War II.

As for the rest of the proposal, if the federal government is hell bent on spending tax payer dollars, we might as well get something out of it.

And the cost for the northeast corridor and California is less then 10% of what Congress gave the banks and got little in return.

ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:When did the court in Columbus put the Meigs court back online? The Sierra Club sued to stop it and the last I saw, it was still pending.

They may have sued, but there has been no resolution of such a lawsuit. The Ohio Dept. of Natural resources is holding perfunctory public hearings and isuing various both mining and Meigs County power plant siting related permits as we speak.

I was poking aroud AEP's site and came across some information that pertains to this conversation.

The Ohio Supreme Court ruled against AEP's collecting R and D money before the project was undertaken but they've not clarified exactly what AEP can do. At this point, AEP is waiting on that clarification.

In West Virginia, they are still waiting on the DEP permits.

In both cases, the Sierra Club cannot challenge those permits until they are issued.

Based on statements from the Sierra club, they will.

sodbuster wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/09/opinion/09krugman.html?_r=1&ref=opinion

Well like Harry Truman said, we need to find a one-handed economist.

This guy says we should spend twice what has been proposed to turn things around.

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=611d21dd-edb6-45f8-802c-568e35493234

And this guy says even more than that.

And when they explain their proposals they all make sense to me.

But from what I have seen so far, Obama will run into more opposition because they want the stimulus to be more than he proposes.

Not less.

I hope he runs into alot of opposition and that ultimately nothing passes. Any idiot knows that we can't spend our way back to a heathly economy.

The only things that are going to bring and end to this downturn is a substancial cut in all taxes, especially the capital gains and business taxes. Additionally, realy taxpaying consummers need to see a real cut in their taxes. That means, of course, the size and scope of government has to decrease. Will any of this happen, I truly doubt it.

I agree Cato, but in order to truly recover and get on the road to prosperity we need to fix our monetary system. We need a standards based system.

Though a massive investment in high-speed rail brings its own set of complications, it's worth keeping these kind of examples in mind when one hears from the Obama people that they can't find sufficient infrastructure projects to fund.

Now isn't that typical planning by a group of dysfunctional incompetents.

They are in the process of budgeting a $TRILLION to fix the woes of the economy and they don't have a frigging clue what will cure those woes.

This means they will be using the "shotgun approach" by shooting tons of money to anyone that holds out his hands in hopes that something will come of it.

The next 4 years is going to be like watching a bad comedy where one won't know whether to laugh or cry.

What we are currently watching is the 2008 Election winners in the process of launching the ......... 2009-12 RECONSTRUCTION PERIOD ...... with the Democrats being in control of trying to solve the political, social, and economic problems arising from the past 50 years of mismanagement, corruption, waste and social deterioration.

And for an overview of what to expect, just read the following, ..... interjecting and or replacing whatever verbiage or present day terminology where ever appropiate.

That victory launched the era of congressional Reconstruction (usually called Radical Reconstruction), which lasted 10 years starting with the Reconstruction Acts of 1867. Under that legislation, the 10 remaining Southern states were divided into five military districts; and, under supervision of the U.S. Army, all were readmitted between 1868 and 1870. Each state had to accept the Fourteenth or, if readmitted after its passage, the Fifteenth Constitutional Amendment, intended to ensure civil rights of the freedmen. The newly created state governments were generally Republican in character and were governed by political coalitions of blacks, carpetbaggers (Northerners who had gone into the South), and scalawags (Southerners who collaborated with the blacks and carpetbaggers). The Republican governments of the former Confederate states were seen by most Southern whites as artificial creations imposed from without, and the conservative element in the region remained hostile to them. Southerners particularly resented the activities.

http://history-world.org/reconstruction_period.htm

And here following is the Dejay Vu "good news" of what you can expect to see happening during this 2009-12 RECONSTRUCTION PERIOD

And as above, interject and or replace whatever verbiage or present day terminology where ever appropiate.

Railroad subsidies and payoffs
Every Southern state subsidized railroads, which modernizers felt could haul the South out of isolation and poverty. Millions of dollars in bonds and subsidies were fraudulently pocketed. One ring in North Carolina spent $200,000 in bribing the legislature and obtained millions in state money for its railroads. Instead of building new track, however, it used the funds to speculate in bonds, reward friends with extravagant fees, and enjoy lavish trips to Europe.[50] Taxes were quadrupled across the South to pay off the railroad bonds and the school costs. There were complaints among taxpayers, because taxes had historically been very low, since there was so little commitment to public works or public education. Taxes historically had been much lower than in the North, reflecting a lack of public investment in the communities.[51] Nevertheless thousands of miles of lines were built as the Southern system expanded from 11,000 miles (17,700 km) in 1870 to 29,000 miles (46,700 km) in 1890. The lines were owned and directed overwhelmingly by Northerners. Railroads helped create a mechanically skilled group of craftsmen and indeed broke the isolation of much of the region. Passengers were few, however, and apart from hauling the cotton crop when it was harvested, there was little freight traffic.[52] As Franklin explains, "numerous railroads fed at the public trough by bribing legislators...and through the use and misuse of state funds." The effect, according to one businessman, "was to drive capital from the State, paralyze industry, and demoralize labor."[53]


[edit] Taxation during Reconstruction
Reconstruction sharply raised the tax structure of the South, especially taxes on land and property.[54] During Reconstruction, new spending on schools and infrastructure, combined with fraudulent spending and a collapse in state credit because of huge deficits, forced the states to dramatically increase property tax rates. In places, the rate went up to ten times higher—despite the poverty of the region. The infrastructure of much of the South--roads, bridges, and railroads--scarce and deficient as it was--had been destroyed during the war. In part, the new tax system was designed to force owners of large estates with huge tracts of uncultivated land either to sell or to have it confiscated for failure to pay taxes.[55

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstruction_era_of_the_United_States

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