O: "Pass it NOW--or we will NEVER recover!"

Krauthammer: WELL, so much for hope over fear...

I would rather never recover then pass this bill.

Aaron wrote:I would rather never recover then pass this bill.

That's a political classic.

Well I came across this alternative view from a guy who seems to have pretty good credentials.

Sorry to paste the whole thing but could not get the link to work.

It might be interesting and useful if there is anyone who has not closed their mind and still trying to gather facts from reliable sources instead of Rush Limbaugh, etc.

Gross Says U.S. Must Spend to Avoid Mini Depression (Update1)
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By Kathleen Hays and Dakin Campbell

Feb. 5 (Bloomberg) -- Bill Gross, co-chief investment officer of Pacific Investment Management Co., said the U.S. may slump into a “mini depression” unless policy makers spend trillions of dollars to spur growth.

“This economy needs support from the government, a check from the government in the trillions,” Gross said today in a Bloomberg Television interview from Pimco’s headquarters in Newport Beach, California. “There is a potential catastrophe if the U.S. government continues to focus on billions of dollars.”

President Barack Obama has proposed a stimulus package intended to spur growth estimated at as much as $900 billion. The U.S. economy shrank by 3.8 percent in the fourth quarter, the most since 1982 as consumer spending recorded the worst slide in the postwar era, the Commerce Department said last week.

Pimco won a Federal Reserve contract in December as one of the four managers of a $500 billion program to purchase mortgage-backed securities. The company was also one of the managers selected to run the Commercial Paper Funding Facility in October.

The Fed will have to step in and buy Treasuries, Gross said, to keep long-term interest rates low as the U.S. increases its debt sales to finance a growing budget deficit and stimulus programs. Central bank officials said Jan. 28 they were “prepared” to buy longer-term Treasuries.

‘Significant Day’

Government borrowing will probably reach $2.5 trillion during the fiscal year ending Sept. 30, according to Goldman Sachs Group Inc.

Speculation has risen that China, which holds $681.9 billion of Treasuries as the single largest investor in U.S. debt, may stop or slow the purchases of U.S. debt as its own economic growth slows.

“To the extent that the Chinese and others do not have the necessary funds, someone has to buy them,” Gross said. “It is incumbent upon the Fed to step in. If they do, that will be a significant day in the bond market and the credit markets.”

Gross, 64, increased his holdings of U.S. government debt, a category that includes agency securities, in December for the first time in a year, according to the company’s Web site. He said today that he will not buy Treasuries.

Gross manages the $132 billion Total Return Fund, the world’s biggest bond fund. The fund gained 4.8 percent last year and has outperformed 99 percent of its peers over the past five years, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The average government and corporate bond fund lost 8 percent in 2008, Bloomberg data show.

Pimco is a unit of Munich-based Allianz SE, Europe’s largest insurer.

To contact the reporter on this story: Kathleen Hays in New York at khays4@bloomberg.net; Dakin Campbell in New York at dcampbell27@bloomberg.net

Last Updated: February 5, 2009 16:14 EST

Anybody can see now what's in the bill. Why would we need Rush Limbaugh to influence us to oppose a huge pork fest? No, I'll be joining the vast majority of Americans who oppose this because it is wrong.

ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:I would rather never recover then pass this bill.

That's a political classic.

Because those using the scare tatics to pass thier liberal spending bill are full of shit. Our economy will not fail without this stimulus. If anything, it may make it stronger and many of the propoants of this liberal spending bill know that.

Pimco won a Federal Reserve contract in December as one of the four managers of a $500 billion program to purchase mortgage-backed securities. The company was also one of the managers selected to run the Commercial Paper Funding Facility in October.

Uhh, you think this guy has an agenda Sodbuster? Do you think that maybe his government contract is his incentative to see more money spent?

Please!!!

There is one interesting sentance in your post though.

the most since 1982

Do you know how many times I've seen that phase, "since 1982" regarding this recession? I lost count long ago but if I had a dime for every time, I'd do my own stimulating.

So tell me, how did the United States government combat the horrible recession of the early 80's? What type of stimulus was used?

Well Aaron my friend I have posted this before a couple times using different words.

But if your side insists on making this a political football by blaming Democrats you will not succeed.

The people know what the Dems inherited, and I think if the republicans try to deny or dodge that it will not avail them.

Maybe you can lessen the stigma by talking about the world economy, etc. but if you try to pin it on Dems it will backfire.

I reckon it would be traumatic for you if public opinion went some other way...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/05/opinion/polls/main4778192.shtml

http://uk.reuters.com/article/usTopNews/idUKTRE5147L820090205

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2009/02/obamas_stimulus_package_wont_h.html

How did our government deal with the recession in the early 80's Sodbuster? Why do you refuse to answer that question.

And as for your analogy, I think you forget that Americans have a very short memory and tend to hold grudges.

I hope Americans do play the blame game. If so, we'll have another contract with America.

We're not the ones being frightened to the point of soiling ourselves by the words of a political icon. That would be you.

You lap up every thing those liberals say and accept as gospel. That's no you, not us. I can read hundreds of millions of dollars for digital converter boxes made in Japan and figure out for myself that's not going to do squat to stimulate the American economy, thank you very much.

Your indoctrination is complete, Sherman. They must be proud of their handywork with you.

Speaking of indoctrination, wonder what Dr. Paul thinks of the idea of stimulating the economy....

I've already posted that information for you, Sherm. You're blind as well as deaf. I don't know why I can't remember that.

Stephanie wrote:I've already posted that information for you, Sherm. You're blind as well as deaf. I don't know why I can't remember that.

He doesn't want to face the truth.

"whoosh..."

Lovin' eyes always go "whoosh"

Sherm,

Did you really think, even for have an instant, that little jab of yours went by me?

There's a huge difference between my support of Ron Paul and your support of Barack Obama. I supported Ron Paul long before he ran for the White House. I haven't abandoned him for John McCain or any other Republican simply because they have an "R" after their name.

I support him because I agree with him at least 90% of the time. That doesn't mean I never disagree with him. What it does mean is that when I don't agree with him I do a bit of research. For example, for years Ron Paul wrote about returning to a standards based currency. I didn't agree with him so I researched the issue. I read all about the history of the Federal Reserve, the Bretton Woods system, and dozens of other issues surrounding economics. After a few months I had learned enough to understand why Dr. Paul is so adamant we must return to a currency tied so something tangible. He was right.

Yet still there are areas of disagreement. I fervently share his desire to reduce the size and scope of government but I still disagree with him that we should completely eliminate the income tax. I still see it as the fairest method of taxing people.

You see, Nanny Pelosi, Dingy Harry & The O could get together and tell you that all Americans should eat shit sandwiches for lunch on Tuesday and you'd be on here demanding we all eat shit sandwiches for lunch on Tuesday or it will be the end of civilization as we know it.

That's what this "stimulus" package is. A trillion dollar shit sandwich.

So tell me, how did the United States government combat the horrible recession of the early 80's? What type of stimulus was used?

Well, there was a hell of a lot of defecit federal government spending in the 1980s. Do you reckon that affected anything?

Matter of fact, as I have said elsewhere, the Reagan regime was by far the biggest deficit spender until G.W. Bush.

Who broke all records for all time.

And led to the current crisis.

(and backed by the big majority of republicans)

But now they are suddenly oh so concerned about spending.

Sadly the partisans on the right cannot admit that.

sodbuster wrote:Well I came across this alternative view from a guy who seems to have pretty good credentials.

Sorry to paste the whole thing but could not get the link to work.

It might be interesting and useful if there is anyone who has not closed their mind and still trying to gather facts from reliable sources instead of Rush Limbaugh, etc.

Gross Says U.S. Must Spend to Avoid Mini Depression (Update1)
Email | Print | A A A

By Kathleen Hays and Dakin Campbell

Feb. 5 (Bloomberg) -- Bill Gross, co-chief investment officer of Pacific Investment Management Co., said the U.S. may slump into a “mini depression” unless policy makers spend trillions of dollars to spur growth.

“This economy needs support from the government, a check from the government in the trillions,” Gross said today in a Bloomberg Television interview from Pimco’s headquarters in Newport Beach, California. “There is a potential catastrophe if the U.S. government continues to focus on billions of dollars.”

President Barack Obama has proposed a stimulus package intended to spur growth estimated at as much as $900 billion. The U.S. economy shrank by 3.8 percent in the fourth quarter, the most since 1982 as consumer spending recorded the worst slide in the postwar era, the Commerce Department said last week.

Pimco won a Federal Reserve contract in December as one of the four managers of a $500 billion program to purchase mortgage-backed securities. The company was also one of the managers selected to run the Commercial Paper Funding Facility in October.

The Fed will have to step in and buy Treasuries, Gross said, to keep long-term interest rates low as the U.S. increases its debt sales to finance a growing budget deficit and stimulus programs. Central bank officials said Jan. 28 they were “prepared” to buy longer-term Treasuries.

‘Significant Day’

Government borrowing will probably reach $2.5 trillion during the fiscal year ending Sept. 30, according to Goldman Sachs Group Inc.

Speculation has risen that China, which holds $681.9 billion of Treasuries as the single largest investor in U.S. debt, may stop or slow the purchases of U.S. debt as its own economic growth slows.

“To the extent that the Chinese and others do not have the necessary funds, someone has to buy them,” Gross said. “It is incumbent upon the Fed to step in. If they do, that will be a significant day in the bond market and the credit markets.”

Gross, 64, increased his holdings of U.S. government debt, a category that includes agency securities, in December for the first time in a year, according to the company’s Web site. He said today that he will not buy Treasuries.

Gross manages the $132 billion Total Return Fund, the world’s biggest bond fund. The fund gained 4.8 percent last year and has outperformed 99 percent of its peers over the past five years, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The average government and corporate bond fund lost 8 percent in 2008, Bloomberg data show.

Pimco is a unit of Munich-based Allianz SE, Europe’s largest insurer.

To contact the reporter on this story: Kathleen Hays in New York at khays4@bloomberg.net; Dakin Campbell in New York at dcampbell27@bloomberg.net

Last Updated: February 5, 2009 16:14 EST

Let's see, Pimco has already "won" this bailout game, and now it is suggesting that even more money, in the trillions, must be spent. Can't you see a wee conflict of interest here? This is not an objective source.

Aaron wrote:

ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:I would rather never recover then pass this bill.

That's a political classic.

Because those using the scare tatics to pass thier liberal spending bill are full of shit. Our economy will not fail without this stimulus. If anything, it may make it stronger and many of the propoants of this liberal spending bill know that.

But either way, that you say you would "rather never recover" speaks volumes.

an economic blueprint for the future - a vision of America where growth is

not based on real estate bubbles or over leveraged banks, but a firm

foundation of investments in energy, education, and health care that will

lead to a real and lasting prosperity.

He wouldn't eat those sandwiches. Everybody knows he doesn't like bread!

We criticized Bush for spending too much. You only hear what you want to. But let's not kid ourselves, no President of either party holds a candle to the monumental, epic deficit spending that Obama is stealthily conducting.

Obama\'s Teleprompter wrote:
but a firm

foundation of investments in energy, education, and health care that will

lead to a real and lasting prosperity.

If you are so silly as to believe that ....... borrowing TRILLION$ ..... is a firm foundation for investments ........ then maybe you should rush down to a Bank and borrow $200,000 or so and invest it in the Stock Market.

I am sure just about any Bank will gladly loan it to you.

You might as well get your name added to that list of "toxic assets".




.

My wife and I are having a case of "toxic assets" this morning. We're darn near fumigating the place!


Ah 10 years of wedded bliss.....