Schools must have order to function

I have two teachers in my family and they'll tell you the samething. Current policy has taken discpline out of the classroom. Students are no longer held accoutnible neither are parents. If you want to blame someone look at the legislature.

Cato

Former GW vice principal blasts Duerringhttp://www.wvgazette.com/News/200912300441

"A former Kanawha County assistant principal alleges in a lawsuit that Kanawha School Superintendent Ron Duerring told him 10 years ago to "make deals" with children of influential people so that Duerring would not have to hear their complaints."

Also look a little closer to home.

What has your experiences in the classroom been Sasha?

As an inclusion teacher (I am a special educator who also has training to go into regular education classrooms and co-present materials with the regular educator) as well as a resource room teacher (pull-out classroom for those students needing smaller classes and modified curriculum for various reasons but mainly reading difficulties and/or difficulties with ADD/ADHD), I have had a wide variety of experiences with this issue.

I see a lot of students who just plain don't care. They suffer from lack-of-give-a-shit-itis. When they don't care about learning, what motivation is there to behave and do more than sleep or pester the rest of the students?

I *love* (insert sarcasm) these "graduation coaches" that KCS has added to all the high schools. Personally, I think these resources need to be focuses earlier because by high school level, the kids have already made the decision to drop out and are just marking time until they legally can.

I see the vast majority of the time the administrators do try to be fair and even-handed in working with the kids, but I also see many parents who interfere with the schools' efforts to try to teach/correct behaviors.

It's the "apple doesn't fall far from the tree" syndrome.

And it's a touch of "one does not value that which comes easily or cheaply".

And a lot of "my precious snowflake is most important to me and should be also to you".

I don't know that a lot of the new philosophies that are becoming popular on teacher blogs/sites will do anything positive or at least not do harm, but something has to change.

I know the high school where I am is adding an in-school suspension position this next semester and this job description (as described to us) will have the educator in charge of this room, will have the kids not only complete classwork they are missing while in ISS, but work on some counseling techniques to help them see what choices and behaviors got them in this situation and what they can do to avoid it in the future. Luckily, the person who has been hired has a counseling background as well as real-world job experience (outside the rarefied air of schools) so hopefully this will make a positive difference.

It'll be nice to have an option other than sending kids home on suspension which is where they want to be to begin with. I would like to see us add Saturday school as an option - but not only for discipline issues, but for kids whose grades dip below certain levels.

How is a teacher paid who works in Saturday school or in after school suspension?

Aaron wrote:How is a teacher paid who works in Saturday school or in after school suspension?

The ISS teacher is a paid position just like any other teacher. The state/county pays for it. It's a regular day job - not after school. Oftentimes a school must sacrifice a curriculum position in order to have an ISS teacher - like if you have a teacher retiring instead of hiring someone to fill that position, you hire for an ISS teacher. It's a difficult choice when it comes down to that. You have to weigh the curricular needs vs behavioral needs of the school.

A saturday school teacher can be paid in different ways - the faculty senate can choose to pay the teacher an hourly wage, sometimes grants can be used, and I figure there are ways that I don't know.

I know Putnam County has went to after school suspension and Saturday school and as these classes are often monitored by teachers, I wonder how they are paid. I have heard rumors of one teacher with 20 plus years service who in addition to her regular teaching position, monitors after school suspension, does homebound teaching in the evening, monitors Saturday school and teaches in the summer time and as a result, brought home a little more then $90K. I know this is off topic but when you mentioned Saturday School, it brought it up for me.

Personally, I agree with Stephanie in that we should eliminate compulsory attendance laws and if a kid doesn't want to be there AND learn, send them home for mommy and daddy to take care of.

I favor alternative learning situations students who can't or won't follow the rules. I don't want you to think I relish the idea of sending them home to play Wii or to the streets to commit crime. I just don't think the current high school model is the answer for every youngster.

Hurricane High doesn't have after school detention or saturday school. Hubbie teaches there this year. My high school in Kanawha County has after-school d-hall for one hour and a teacher monitors that - paid an hourly stipend.

I'm slowly coming to the agreement that mandatory attendance beyond about age 13 is for the birds. If a kid drops out though, then there needs to be some serious guidelines to allow them to come back when/if they change their minds. I've lost track of the times this one girl has quit/transferred/come back/quit again - just this year. And unfortunately *every time* she drops out the school's statistics take a hit.

Hi Sasha,

Always enjoyable to see your posts. I agree that 13 is a better mandatory age than 16, 17, or 18, but I should like to see it abolished altogether. Some situations are just unfortunate and school doesn't help the problem; I have had teens I've worked with who have been through school and not learned anything other than where to score marijuana. I don't blame the schools, mind you, at least not entirely. As the bumper sticker says, you can lead a kid to school, but you can't make him think.

SheikBen wrote: As the bumper sticker says, you can lead a kid to school, but you can't make him think.

LOL! Ben you have no idea how many times my husband and I have said that ourselves.

We've gone further with it to this: "We can lead a kid to water, we can even cup the water in our hands, filter the water, flavor the water, and massage their throat - but at some point the kid has to swallow for themselves."

I have begun tutoring math to a student in a neighboring town. For homework, she had to do two word problems involving logic, and both questions were fatally flawed.

The first had to do with discovering which four teens had which four hypothetical jobs. The jobs were lifeguard, mowing lawns, babysitting, and delivering newspapers. One of the "clues" was that one of the kids was an excellent swimmer.

Well that was supposed to peg that kid as the lifeguard, but as anyone knows, a given lawnmower may well be an excellent swimmer as well, or a given attorney, babysitter, etc. The question itself is bad, but if you know enough to know that reality, you will likely get that question wrong.

The second was similarly flawed. The truly excellent would not get it, although for the highly mediocre it was a slam dunk.

Let me take the second question...

SheikBen wrote:I have begun tutoring math to a student in a neighboring town. For homework, she had to do two word problems involving logic, and both questions were fatally flawed.

The first had to do with discovering which four teens had which four hypothetical jobs. The jobs were lifeguard, mowing lawns, babysitting, and delivering newspapers. One of the "clues" was that one of the kids was an excellent swimmer.

I think I actually remember this one...I've seen it in one of my puzzle books. I remember having this problem with it and then my husband pointed out after listening to me b*tch about it that i was "thinking too hard".

ohio county wrote:Let me take the second question...

OC you have made my day.

The question involved a brother and a sister in telephone usage. The sister spoke in a given month twice as much on the phone than the brother (giving an equation of x=2y) not suprisingly, but then the question asked how much time each person spent on the phone. A total amount of time was never given, (ie x+y=35 hours or whatever), so no truly correct answer could be given, except the hypothetical "if brother talks for 4 hours per month, the sister talked for 8 hours), but the hypothetical was not asked, the question asked "how long did each person spend on the phone" and there was no possible way to answer the question definintively.

But the answer "not enough information" was not considered correct by the Oxford Dons who wrote that great mathematical tome.

Ooh that was a ridiculous puzzle. However, having used algebra books for a few years - the author was probably only wanting the equation, not an actual numerical solution.

I hate those types of questions because kids want to give an "answer".

Had the author merely asked for the equation it would have been OK, but alas it was not. The question called for a specific answer that was impossible to give, only to have the answer key (a teacher's best friend) offer a "sample" answer. If it were a question of what "could" the answer be the question would be different.

I run into this kind of shinola frequently. I used to grade the Ohio State Proficiency Exams, and they had questions that were ridiculous. One "logic" question I recall involved two people being friends because they always wore the same clothes. One particularly astute student wondered if there was a better way of choosing friends, and of course, that was not an answer accepted by the rubric.