I'm a legal American citizen and I must show my ID when:

Stephanie wrote:Yesterday was my son's birthday. His ID expired on his birthday. He went to Citizen's Bank in Providence, RI to cash the check his grandparents had written him for his birthday. Not only was he asked to show his ID, they refused to cash that check because his ID had expired at midnight. He sent me a text message when it happened. It's still on my phone. I will forward it to you if you like.

Armon Ayers wrote:

ziggy wrote:If I were driving on the public highway, yes.

If you were driving into Mexico and the border agent asked for your driver's license, auto registration and proof of insurance, would you give them to the Mexican authorities?

When you entered Mexico, if asked by Mexican authorities, would you tell them what the nature of your visit is and how long you plan to stay?

Would you feel that you had been profiled if they did not ask everyone those same questions?

ziggy wrote:

This is my experience, and I think I lead a mostly "normal" life.

TerryRC wrote:All of which are voluntary actions in getting privileges.

You do not, however, have to show ID for merely walking down the street. In that instance, a cop has the right to ask your name and NOTHING else unless (s)he is arresting you.

ziggy wrote:But were I asked to show anyone proof of my legal citizenship status, I don't think I could. So maybe I am lucky that I don't look Hispanic and travel in Arizona.

They have a right to ask you for your ID at any time. You have a right to refuse. And if they choose to pursue the matter, they can take you into custody.

Aaron wrote:

ziggy wrote:

This is my experience, and I think I lead a mostly "normal" life.

As a life long senior citizen in Ripley, WV.

ziggy wrote:

They have a right to ask you for your ID at any time. You have a right to refuse. And if they choose to pursue the matter, they can take you into custody.

On what charge?

ohio county wrote:

Keli has an agenda. And whatever it is, it is not about truth and veracity.

What in the legislation passed and signed will be stricken down by the federal court? What part of the Arizona legislation is defective? I'm ready to discuss this at length...

TerryRC wrote:That's not true. They have a right to ask you for your ID at any time. You have a right to refuse. And if they choose to pursue the matter, they can take you into custody.

I have read the law. Refusal to show an ID if you are walking down the street is not a crime. If they arrest me, they would have to have probable cause of another crime. You had better check the law, yourself. That is why most vagrancy laws haven't and won't pass constitutional muster.

Is probable cause now going to be "they talk funny" or "they look like a mexican"? I don't carry proof of my citizenship when I walk to the neighbors. If we had a law like this in WV would I be in danger of being detained?

The AZ law will not pass constitutional muster.

TerryRC wrote:That's not true. They have a right to ask you for your ID at any time. You have a right to refuse. And if they choose to pursue the matter, they can take you into custody.

I have read the law. Refusal to show an ID if you are walking down the street is not a crime.

TerryRC wrote:If they arrest me, they would have to have probable cause of another crime. You had better check the law, yourself. That is why most vagrancy laws haven't and won't pass constitutional muster.

TerryRC wrote:Is probable cause now going to be "they talk funny" or "they look like a mexican"? I don't carry proof of my citizenship when I walk to the neighbors. If we had a law like this in WV would I be in danger of being detained?

TerryRC wrote:The AZ law will not pass constitutional muster.

TerryRC wrote:All I had to do to get my WV license back in 2003 was bring two pieces of mail with my address and surrender my NY license. Didn't need bupkiss to renew it last year.

Not proof of citizenship.

TerryRC wrote:All I had to do to get my WV license back in 2003 was bring two pieces of mail with my address and surrender my NY license. Didn't need bupkiss to renew it last year.

Not proof of citizenship.

Documents for Issuance of Permit/GDL/License/Identification Card

The DMV requires several different documents for the issuance of a license and an identification card. Below is a list of acceptable documents that can be used to obtain a license or identification card. Please refer to the type license or identification card transaction to see what you are required to provide.

An original, valid, current, unexpired Certificate of U. S. Citizenship (INS Form N-560) with photograph
U. S. Birth Certificate: An original or certified copy of a United States-issued birth certificate (U. S. Department of State and U. S. Military birth certificates ARE acceptable. Hospital birth certificates are NOT acceptable)
An original, valid, current, unexpired Certificate of Naturalization (INS Form 550 or INS Form 570) with photograph
An original, valid, current West Virginia driver's license, permit, or ID card, that is expired less than six (6) months with photograph
An original, valid, current, unexpired U. S. Military ID Card
U. S. Military Retiree Card or Uniform Service Identification Privilege Card (DD 1173) with current photograph
An original, valid, current, unexpired or legally extended United States passport with current photograph
To obtain a birth certificate, if you were born in West Virginia, contact the West Virginia Department of Health & Human Resources. If you were born in another state, the National Center for Health Statistics has information on how to obtain a birth certificate.

[url=http://www.transportation.wv.gov/dmv/Driver-Licenses/Pages/DrivingLicenseInformation.aspx#Documents for Issuance of Permit/GDL/License/Identification Card]Source[/url]

Aaron wrote:

ziggy wrote:

They have a right to ask you for your ID at any time. You have a right to refuse. And if they choose to pursue the matter, they can take you into custody.

On what charge?

That would depend on what they stopped you or approached you for.

And I can't help but note that while you accuse Keli of having an agenda and responding with word play which is par the course, OC gave you the opportunity to delve into the issue and and conduct an honest discussion yet you refused.

ohio county wrote:

Keli has an agenda. And whatever it is, it is not about truth and veracity.

What in the legislation passed and signed will be stricken down by the federal court? What part of the Arizona legislation is defective? I'm ready to discuss this at length...

Any particular reason why?

TerryRC wrote:Sure you could. Your ID is accepted as legal citizenship as you will find out when you go to renew your license and are required to bring in your vital statistics state issued birth certificate. If you don't have one, go pay the $12 and get it because you're going to need it.

All I had to do to get my WV license back in 2003 was bring two pieces of mail with my address and surrender my NY license. Didn't need bupkiss to renew it last year.

Not proof of citizenship.

Applicants who have never held a driving license or ID card, who are transferring a license from out-of state, or who have a West Virginia license that has been expired for more than six (6) months are first-time applicants. The following documents are required by first-time applicants:

A certified birth certificate or a valid, unexpired U.S. Passport.
Social Security Card.
Two (2) proofs of West Virginia physical address from the approved list of residency documents.
If the applicant is under the age of 18 and is applying for a instruction permit or license, a valid Driver's Eligibility Certificate is also required.
If the applicant’s name has changed, then an original or a certified copy of a certified marriage certificate, divorce decree, or court order is also required. (Additional documents may be required if a connection between the documents can not be established.)
Applicants who are applying for a West Virginia driver's license and are transferring a license from another state, must also submit their current license from the previous state or present a current certified driving record from his/her previous state.

Renewing Your Driver's License

To renew a driver's license you must present 1 document from the list of identity documents, along with 1 proof of WV residency from the residency requirements. If your license is expired for more than 6 months you are required to retest, written and road skills examination, along with providing all documents as a first time applicant. If your social security number is not in the system, or is wrong in the system you will be required to provide your social security card, before a new license will be issued. An applicant who is not a citizen of the United States shall present all documents required by the Division to verify his or her legal status in the United states, proof of identity, and proof of residency in this state.

ziggy wrote:Keli started with the "word play" by posting a bunch of crap that is not true. If Keli wanted an "honest discussion" he should have started out with honest facts.

Armon Ayers wrote: I'm a legal American citizen and I must show my ID when:

1. Pulled over by the police.
2. Making purchases on my credit card.
3. When I show up for a doctor's appointment .
4. When filling out a credit card or loan application .
5. When applying for or renewing a driver's license or passport .
6. When applying for any kind of insurance .
7. When filling out college applications .
8. When donating blood .
9. When obtaining certain prescription drugs .
10. When making some debit purchases, especially if I'm out of state .
11. When collecting a boarding pass for airline or train travel .
12. When cashing a check at a bank or retail store.

TerryRC wrote:You're going to have to prove your assertion that's what Arizona law will do.

I don't have to prove that is what it will do. I only have to show the possibility.

The AZ law allows cops to check the status of anyone they come in lawful contact with. That includes talking to people on the street, which is considered a lawful contact. Do you think many caucasians will asked for their proof of citizenship? That is problem one - the law will be, in practice, discriminatory.

The next problem is that citizens have the right to be secure in their person. That means that you do not have to show papers to ANYONE to walk down the street, whether you look like a hispanic or not. The police can only detain you with a warrant or probable cause of a crime. Refusing to show an ID merely for being on the street is not a crime.

There are problems with the AZ legislation. As I said, I doubt it will pass constitutional muster.

B. For any lawful contact stop, detention or arrest made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of this state or a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state in the enforcement of any other law or ordinance of a county, city or town or this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who and is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation. Any person who is arrested shall have the person's immigration status determined before the person is released. The person's immigration status shall be verified with the federal government pursuant to 8 United States code section 1373(c). A law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state may not solely consider race, color or national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona Constitution. A person is presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States if the person provides to the law enforcement officer or agency any of the following:

1. A valid Arizona driver license.

2. A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.

3. A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.

4. If the entity requires proof of legal presence in the United States before issuance, any valid United States federal, state or local government issued identification.

TerryRC wrote:Go to the link below and read the text of the bill that became law, Terry. The AZ House changed the language. You're not looking at the legislation as it was passed.

Better, I guess, if true.

I still predict a lot of trumped up excuses to be "stopping" suspicious people whose only crime is walking down the street and looking chicano.

We will see.

TerryRC wrote:NEW applicants will have to do what you describe but us older license holders do not. That means that a WV driver's license is NOT proof of citizenship across the board.

TerryRC wrote:With your reasoning abilities, you should be a GOP strategist.

TerryRC wrote:Go to the link below and read the text of the bill that became law, Terry. The AZ House changed the language. You're not looking at the legislation as it was passed.

Better, I guess, if true.

I still predict a lot of trumped up excuses to be "stopping" suspicious people whose only crime is walking down the street and looking chicano.

We will see.