John McCain chooses female running mate. Liberals furious.

I just don't condone sexism. I am really more than a little surprised that of all the members of this forum it is you choosing this path of attack. Honestly, I never once considered you to be chauvinist. Just goes to show how wrong I can sometimes be.

Well!

She tots around her "family values" yet leaves a small and still nursing child at home and has a pregnant teenager.

I'm the chauvinist for pointing this out.

I have raised other points about her ethics and "truthiness", mind you but it doesn't matter. I'm a bad person for picking on poor Sarah because I have a penis.

Here is a flowchart with an example illustrating her "family values":



Your contempt for her is very common from liberals such as yourslef and is the result of the fear Palin has instituted in liberals.

HURR! LIBURLS!!! ELEVENTY!!!

At least use a term that means something, Aaron.

There are less people in her state than some counties in Virginia. She has run on platforms based on the fact that her opponents were the "wrong type of christians" - in short, campaigns of malice and slander. She has fibbed about pork barrel spending.

She is also crazy. Her preacher gave her A BLESSING AGAINST WITCHCRAFT before she assumed the office of governor.

She can't even keep up with questions from KATIE COURIC.

Contempt may be too weak a word for what I feel for this woman but it has nothing to do with being "liberal".

Like I said, I was going to vote for McCain. How "liberal" of me. Not any more, though.

Ah, now you're second guessing her doctor. When my amniotic fluid leaked with Katie my OB/GYN told me to sit home and wait for contractions to begin. I went to the hospital the next day and was sent home for 9 days, until Katie moved, more leaked and the doctor said, "Oh well, I guess it's time to nudge this one along".

Like me, Sarah Palin's water didn't "break". It was leaking. Like Sarah Palin, in the end I still had to be induced.

Ah, now you're second guessing her doctor. When my amniotic fluid leaked with Katie my OB/GYN told me to sit home and wait for contractions to begin. I went to the hospital the next day and was sent home for 9 days, until Katie moved, more leaked and the doctor said, "Oh well, I guess it's time to nudge this one along".

Like me, Sarah Palin's water didn't "break". It was leaking. Like Sarah Palin, in the end I still had to be induced.

Were you leaking 1.5 months prematurely? Did you have a high risk of complications due to your age?

Her water was leaking and, instead of going to a doctor, immediately, she gave her speech, FLEW home and drove to the hospital.

I'm not second guessing anyone, I am pointing out some sheer idiocy.

Since I have a penis, I am being sexist for pointing that out.

You still haven't made your case that I am a chauvinist. Work on that and then we'll get to the idiocy of her medical decisions.

Terry,

At least be truthful about the situation. Her doctor didn't think this was a medical emergency. When it happend to me, my doctor didn't think it was a medical emergency. I most certainly was younger than Sarah Palin when I gave birth to Katie, but that was the only pregnancy I ever was seriously ill during. I was in and out of the hospital numerous times between weeks 9 and 16. Katie was fine.

I'm not calling you a chauvinist because you have a penis. I'm calling you a chauvinist because you keep attacking her decision to run for the Vice Presidency because she has children. I have never heard you show any concern for the very young children of other candidates, including Edwards with the very young children and the terminally ill wife, or Biden who took the oath of office for the Senate immediately after the death of the mother of his very young children.

Women don't relinquish the right to have careers or ambitions because they give birth any more than a man does when he becomes a father. Basically, what you are doing is slamming Palin because you don't agree with the choices she has made for her life and her family.

My ex wife was sent home dialated 4 and 'leaking' fluid with our 4th son. The doctors said it's common with women who have given multiple births. She stayed that way for almost 10 days.

Aaron,

On a secular homeschool group I belong to somebody posted that little graphic Terry posted here. Those women have been picking Palin's bones dry. Even after a member who is a midwife spoke up saying, "a drippy uterus isn't a medical emergency" most of them still insisted they know better than Sarah Palin, her midwife, my OB/GYN from so long ago, and every other medical professional who weighed in on the matter.

Their minds are made up. They are all for diversity unless that includes a conservative woman.

I'm not calling you a chauvinist because you have a penis. I'm calling you a chauvinist because you keep attacking her decision to run for the Vice Presidency because she has children. I have never heard you show any concern for the very young children of other candidates, including Edwards with the very young children and the terminally ill wife, or Biden who took the oath of office for the Senate immediately after the death of the mother of his very young children.

Steph, again, and I can't say this enough: NONE OF THE OTHERS YOU HAVE MENTIONED WERE HIGHLIGHTING THEIR "FAMILY VALUES".

You don't think a NEWBORN doesn't need a mother's love? Perhaps some of mom's breastmilk?

If I'm a chauvinist for pointing out Palin's own hypocracy, I will wear that tag gladly. If I was a woman and said what I have, you wouldn't call me a chauvinist. Hmmm... who is really the sexist one here?

Even so, when did you ever see me give support to Edwards?

I'm not a big Biden fan. He is more competent than Palin, though. He lost one of his kids in the accident that took his wife. He took his oath of office by the side of his critically injured boys. He probably shouldn't have taken the office but at least he came home, a 1.5 hour commute, every night.

Think Palin will be home every night?

Women don't relinquish the right to have careers or ambitions because they give birth any more than a man does when he becomes a father. Basically, what you are doing is slamming Palin because you don't agree with the choices she has made for her life and her family.

I'm slamming Palin because her actions do not match her assertions. I could give a crap about her personal choices as long as she wouldn't fib about them.

On a secular homeschool group I belong to somebody posted that little graphic Terry posted here. Those women have been picking Palin's bones dry. Even after a member who is a midwife spoke up saying, "a drippy uterus isn't a medical emergency" most of them still insisted they know better than Sarah Palin, her midwife, my OB/GYN from so long ago, and every other medical professional who weighed in on the matter.

Considering her age and the fact that there were likely to be complications, many "medical professionals" would disagree. Also, don't even get me started on midwives. I know one in Summers County that lost a child and the mother because rather than call an ambulance, her solution was to pray.

I'm betting Palin's midwife was of a similar bent.

Regardless, you still have not made your case that I am sexist.

Palin used an OB/GYN.

A midwife delivered my last 3 children. I would never use an OB/GYN again unless presented with no other choice.

I believe that if Sarah Palin is our Vice President, she and her family will move to DC. I doubt she will commute to Alaska any more than any of the men who have served as VP from locations far from DC have done.

She takes Trig with her so she can continue to breastfeed him. He isn't a campaign prop, although her enemies are trying to turn him into one. I reject the notion that her children are unloved because there mom is on the campaign trail for 2 months of their lives, just as I reject the notion that Obama's children are unloved because their parents have been busy running a national campaign for the better part of two years.

She takes Trig with her so she can continue to breastfeed him. He isn't a campaign prop, although her enemies are trying to turn him into one. I reject the notion that her children are unloved because there mom is on the campaign trail for 2 months of their lives, just as I reject the notion that Obama's children are unloved because their parents have been busy running a national campaign for the better part of two years.

Right. Again, Obama (you just have to keep bringing others into this) was not bragging about his "family values" and "hockey dad" status.

So when she is meeting foreign leaders and other POR (people of rank), sometimes for hours on end, she just nips off and gives suck?

I know better than that. If you say so, though.

I don't care if Palin does move to DC. VP's do a lot of traveling for days, possible a week or two, on end.

Regardless, I don't care if she wants to go from housewife to political gimmick. I just want her be honest about the fact that she won't be the "hockey mom" she professes to be for those younger kids.

Did you hear her most recent interview? If she becomes VP and McCain blows a gasket, we are all in a world of hurt.

No, I didn't hear her interview. I don't watch McCain or Obama or Palin or Biden any more. I did watch much of the DNC, though. I actually watched more of that than I did the RNC, during which time I watched quite a bit of Ron Paul's shindig.

Did you watch Michelle Obama's big speech at the convention?

I watched all of BOTH conventions.

Is Michelle running for office like Palin is?

Steph, just came across this gem:

Palin’s Budget Cut for Severely Disabled Children in Alaska

Aren't retarded kids part of "family values"?

This woman is the distilled essence of hypocrisy.

I'm not sexist for questioning her family values, I'm dead on.

She takes care of her disabled children. Should she let the taxpayers care for all disabled children? I fail to see the hypocrisy. Is it family values to foist your responsibilities off on the taxpayers? Or is this just your day to be gratuitiously contentious?

TerryRC wrote:I watched all of BOTH conventions.

Is Michelle running for office like Palin is?

Did you have a barf bag by your side?

I did not watch Senator Obama's speech. I'd had all I could take by the time he showed up. However, I did see Mrs. Obama's speech. I don't have a transcript of that speech, but I'm sure one is available somewhere.

How many times did Michelle Obama mention Barack's "values"? How many times did Mrs. Obama bring up the Obama children and speak about how "just like you" we.....

whatever....worry about the future.......worry about this or that....etc

Is it that little phrase you dislike so intensely? "Family values"?

Families with values take care of their own. They don't dump their children in institutions ala Joe Kennedy when they become too much of an embarrassment or burden and they don't expect the taxpayers to take care of all of their needs. I take care of my children. You take care of your children. Jimmy takes care of his children and Aaron takes care of his boys.

I know I am fortunate that my kids are all healthy. A lot of that is just dumb luck. However, if they weren't all healthy, that wouldn't negate my responsibilities or .

Lots of folks take care of their disabled children themselves. They let a bunch of government bureaucrats make all healthcare and education decisions for their kids. They do it themselves. As a matter of fact, I know you met one such mom and her child. She homeschools her disabled son and you spent a couple of hours with them a few months back.

They are not alone. KICHE has several families with disabled kids who have decided not only can they take care of their own special needs children, but they can do a far better job of educating them than the state or federal government.

Families with values take care of their own. They don't dump their children in institutions ala Joe Kennedy when they become too much of an embarrassment or burden and they don't expect the taxpayers to take care of all of their needs. I take care of my children. You take care of your children. Jimmy takes care of his children and Aaron takes care of his boys.

"Family values" is a right-wing term for "disregard and disrespect anyone that is outside our group. After all, they aren't part of the family and thus not important."

I know I am fortunate that my kids are all healthy. A lot of that is just dumb luck. However, if they weren't all healthy, that wouldn't negate my responsibilities or .

Or what? Handicapped kids, as you may know, take time and resources that normal kids do not. If your kids were special needs would you let them suffer if you couldn't afford what they need? Would you put your pride over their well being, or would you take some assistance?

Regardless, can you not see the hypocracy of Palin saying the handicapped will have a "friend in the White House" when the truth was that she was no friend to the handicapped in Alaska?

We know you hate all government programs but certainly some of them have merit.

The Palinistas probably believe that bull about how she was opposed to earmarks too, RC.

Politics does strange things to peoples ability to reason and their objectivity.

"Loving eyes never see"...

Yes Stephanie I know it sometimes affects democrats too.

Palin is not the only one to pull that baloney.

She is just the latest example and one of the most blatant turnarounds lately.

It is the role of Governors to request earmarks. They try to get as many resources from DC to their individual states.

It SHOULD then be the role of Congress and the President to tell those Governors "no."

SheikBen wrote:It is the role of Governors to request earmarks. They try to get as many resources from DC to their individual states.

It SHOULD then be the role of Congress and the President to tell those Governors "no."

Well then Mike is it ok for a governor to fib about it and say she told those guys no take your earmarks I dont want them when she was actually one of the biggest rooters at the earmark trough?

And she did not oppose any pork till it was the pc republican position?

That is my problem with it is the hypocrisy.

Heck I am maybe the only one on here who unabashedly supports earmarks.

I just dont like the fibbing part.

TerryRC wrote:We know you hate all government programs but certainly some of them have merit.

I had a physically handicapped, mentally retarded brother who passed away at that age of 31 in 1995. He participated in both government ran and charity/privated funded programs. The only ones that were worth a plug nickle in my opinion were the private ones with no government intervention such as Green Acres in Lesage, WV.

They actually taught him to read on an 8th grade level and math on a high school level. Due to a birth defect, he had problems retaining what he learned but they worked wonders with him when all the state wanted to do was put him in an institution in St. Mary's. Jimmy can tell you all about that hell whole.

Terry,

I spent the day at the Wahama Band Festival. Now I've been to Wahama, Aaron! lol

The point is, by the time I read your message, Aaron answered it quite effectively.

However, I do believe there is a very limited role for government in these situations. I know the answer isn't to put these kids on a school bus at the age of 3 and send them to school for 7 hours a day 220 days a year until they reach the age of 21.

When I was on the school committee, I would visit each school a couple of times a year. There was a child in the self-contained classroom of one school who was strapped in her carseat doing nothing every time I visited. Every single time. She had no language skills and responded to nothing. When I met her she was 3, last time I saw her she was 7.

That may have provided a respite for the parents who didn't have to look at this poor soul for the roughly 8 hours she was gone from the house (school & transportation time) and not being responsible for changing her diapers and tube feeding her, but I fail to see the justification for paying a teacher $75k a year for that student and 3 others slightly less handicapped, plus full time aides for each one of those kids, plus the special transportation, plus bus aides, plus the various equipment required and a litany of other things I'm not thinking of.

But no comment on the paradox of claiming to be a "friend of the handicapped" while gutting spending on the handicapped?

Terry,

I won't comment on the situation in Alaska because I don't have enough of the facts available to me. Did Sarah Palin cut funding of programs that were ineffective? Did she cut funding for programs where children were being mistreated or abused? Did she cut funding because there were private agencies doing a better job?

Did she cut funding because she discovered that the state was paying for goods and services of children with private insurance that would pay for those goods and services, if only they were billed for them? Did she cut funding for extremely costly residential programs and provide funding for in home programs that cost far less and provide a better quality of life?

Do you have the answers to all of these questions and more? I do not.

If you were really interested (and I suspect you are not), you could start woith the article I referenced.

It has embedded links that will take you to other references, also.

More hypocrisy from this woman. I guess I'm just being "sexist" about this.

TerryRC wrote:Steph, just came across this gem:

Palin’s Budget Cut for Severely Disabled Children in Alaska

Aren't retarded kids part of "family values"?

This woman is the distilled essence of hypocrisy.

I'm not sexist for questioning her family values, I'm dead on.

Terry,

Cutting funding to a bureaucracy is not the same thing as cutting funding to children with special needs.

I've bored you all here before with my own experience in working for a disability/rehabilitation bureaucracy under the DHHS. We wasted a lot of money, but we had our funding source guaranteed because whenever anyone would ask if we were spending it well, they looked like they were against funding people with disabilities.

Read the article.

The programs (specific programs, for the most part, not a "bureaucracy")that were cut were exclusively for handicapped kids. By what accounts I have been able to find, they were popular and effective.

Regardless, it doesn't sound like something "a friend of the handicapped" would do.

I wonder if she has changed her tune, considering her new arrival, and all?