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Same-Sex 'Marriage' and Religious Liberty

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SheikBen
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Same-Sex 'Marriage' and Religious Liberty Empty Same-Sex ''Marriage'' and Religious Liberty

Post by Keli Tue May 12, 2009 4:56 pm

Chuck Colson: Same-Sex 'Marriage' and Religious Liberty - Why They Can't Coexist
BreakPoint ^ | 5/12/09 | Chuck Colson


As more states—like Iowa—approve same-sex “marriage,” conservatives are claiming that freedom of religion is in peril. Same-sex “marriage” supporters accuse them of engaging in hysterical gay-bating. Who’s telling the truth?

Let me share some stories with you from an excellent news broadcast produced by National Public Radio. Then you decide.

Two women decided to hold their civil union ceremony at a New Jersey pavilion owned by the Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association. This Methodist group told the women they could not “marry” in any building used for religious purposes. The Rev. Scott Hoffman said a theological principle—that marriage can only exist between one man and one woman—was at stake.

The women filed a discrimination complaint with the New Jersey Division of Civil Rights. The Methodists said the First Amendment protected their right to practice their faith without being punished by the government. But punish the Methodists is exactly what New Jersey did. It revoked their tax exemption—a move that cost them $20,000.

Then there’s the case of the Christian physicians who refused to provide in vitro fertilization treatment to a woman in a lesbian relationship. The doctors referred her to their partners, who were willing to provide the treatment. But that wasn’t good enough. The woman sued. The California Supreme Court agreed with the woman, saying that the doctors’ religious beliefs didn’t give them the right to refuse the controversial treatment.

In Massachusetts, Catholic Charities was told they had to accept homosexual couples in their adoption service, or get out of the adoption business. They chose correctly—get out of the business.

In Mississippi, a mental health counselor was sued for refusing to provide therapy to a woman looking to improve her lesbian relationship. The counselor’s employers fired her—a move that was backed up by the U.S. Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals.

In New York, the Albert Einstein College of Medicine at Yeshiva University refused to allow same-sex couples to live in married student housing, in keeping with the school’s orthodox Jewish teachings. But in 2001, the New York State Supreme Court forced them to do so anyway—even though New York has no same-sex “marriage” law.

In Albuquerque, a same-sex couple asked a Christian wedding photographer to film their commitment ceremony—and sued the photographer when she declined. An online adoption service was forced to stop doing business in California when a same-sex couple sued the service for refusing, on religious grounds, to assist them.

Convinced? Clearly, homosexual “marriage” and religious liberty cannot co-exist—because gay activists will not allow them to. As marriage expert Maggie Gallagher puts it, same-sex “marriage” advocates claim that religious faith “itself is a form of bigotry.”

Tune in tomorrow, for I want you to learn how you can help protect both our religious rights and marriage itself. I know this may sound alarmist, but it’s true. If we don’t work to stop this juggernaut, we may soon find ourselves hunted down at work, at school, and even at church—as others have been—by those determined to force us to accept as a moral good what God calls evil.
Keli
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Post by Cato Tue May 12, 2009 8:08 pm

And there is is the issue. It isn't enough that the homosexual community gets marriage recognized. They demand that people accept it whether they choose to or not. The whole homosexual agenda isn't about liberty, its about using the force of law to compell people to bow to their demands.


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Post by TerryRC Sat May 16, 2009 9:43 am

And there is is the issue. It isn't enough that the homosexual community gets marriage recognized. They demand that people accept it whether they choose to or not. The whole homosexual agenda isn't about liberty, its about using the force of law to compell people to bow to their demands stop discriminating against them.

Fixed that for you.

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Post by SamCogar Sat May 16, 2009 10:41 am

Dose that also mean that some people should stop discriminating against Bush and the Republicans?

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Post by SamCogar Sat May 16, 2009 10:42 am

Or is it just the queers that some people have a fondness for?

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Post by TerryRC Sat May 16, 2009 10:48 am

What are you babbling about, Sam? Why don't you just come out and say it?

There are many republicans I respect, like Olympia Snowe.

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Post by SamCogar Sat May 16, 2009 10:54 am

Now that's a funny name for a man.

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Post by Cato Sat May 16, 2009 12:44 pm

TerryRC wrote:And there is is the issue. It isn't enough that the homosexual community gets marriage recognized. They demand that people accept it whether they choose to or not. The whole homosexual agenda isn't about liberty, its about using the force of law to compell people to bow to their demands stop discriminating against them.

Fixed that for you.


So you are saying the items Keli posted are lies and that if I choose not to sell property or rent to a homosexual couple, they'll respect my right to do so with MY property.

Is they what you are saying Terry?

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Post by Cato Sat May 16, 2009 12:46 pm

TerryRC wrote:What are you babbling about, Sam? Why don't you just come out and say it?

There are many republicans I respect, like Olympia Snowe.

Olympia Snowe = RINO

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Post by Keli Sat May 16, 2009 1:01 pm

AP on Yahoo ^ | 5/16/09 | Russ Bynum - ap

SAVANNAH, Ga. – Republicans can reach a broader base by recasting gay marriage as an issue that could dent pocketbooks as small businesses spend more on health care and other benefits, GOP Chairman Michael Steele said Saturday.

Steele said that was just an example of how the party can retool its message to appeal to young voters and minorities without sacrificing core conservative principles. Steele said he used the argument weeks ago while chatting on a flight with a college student who described herself as fiscally conservative but socially liberal on issues like gay marriage.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
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Post by Stephanie Sat May 16, 2009 3:03 pm

Keli,

Plenty of companies, and a whole lot of government entities, have been allowing unmarried couples, both gay and straight, to add their partners to their health insurance plans.

This has been going on for over a decade that I know of.
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Post by SheikBen Sat May 16, 2009 8:40 pm

And companies should be able to decide who they offer insurance to, just as liberal churches perform "weddings" of two men or two women whenever they wish as well.

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Post by Keli Sat May 16, 2009 8:55 pm

SheikBen wrote:And companies should be able to decide who they offer insurance to, just as liberal churches perform "weddings" of two men or two women whenever they wish as well.

Should we, our church, have to accept a married same-sex couple as members of our church? Should we be able to excommunicate anyone?
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Post by Stephanie Sat May 16, 2009 10:00 pm

Are you asking me?

Of course not. Homosexuality is forbidden in your religion.
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Post by Keli Sat May 16, 2009 10:40 pm

Stephanie wrote:Are you asking me?

Of course not. Homosexuality is forbidden in your religion.

Is it acceptable in Solsticecystism?
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Post by Stephanie Sat May 16, 2009 11:03 pm

I don't know. I am not, nor have I ever been, a Solsticist. I would think so, though.
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Post by Keli Sun May 17, 2009 4:59 am

IF we redefine marriage to include same-sex marriage, by what law or religious standard does marriage have to be limited to two people? Do you think that IF, three or four people (or more) get "married," that increase in insured employees and dependents would not affect employers and businesses?
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Post by TerryRC Sun May 17, 2009 7:13 am

Now that's a funny name for a man.

So is "Sam".

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Post by TerryRC Sun May 17, 2009 7:18 am

Olympia Snowe = RINO

Oh, so because you don't agree with all of her platform, she is not a real republican.

I take it you have to be a bible-thumping stoic to be a "real" republican?

It was a republican president that launched civil rights legislation. You people forget your roots.

So you are saying the items Keli posted are lies and that if I choose not to sell property or rent to a homosexual couple, they'll respect my right to do so with MY property.


Rant, rant, rant.

Renting to them condones their lifestyle no more than selling them a car does. You STILL haven't addressed that.

The fact is that I distilled your rant down the the truth - that gays wanted to be treated like people, not criminals or animals.

You should understand "discrimination". You and Keli scream that christians are being discriminated against all of the time.

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Post by SamCogar Sun May 17, 2009 8:02 am

TerryRC wrote: You should understand "discrimination".

Now just who is it that doesn't understand what the NAACP or the Congressional Black Caucus is?

Do I know any of them?

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Post by TerryRC Sun May 17, 2009 8:05 am

Now just who is it that doesn't understand what the NAACP or the Congressional Black Caucus is?

Do I know any of them?


You avoided the question. Also, Whites can be NAACP members.

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Post by SheikBen Sun May 17, 2009 9:41 am

TerryRC,

I would have no problem with someone refusing to sell a car to white people, either.

There is a "buy black" movement in Chicago. If people want to buy from or sell to only certain people it should be their right, just as it is then my right to withhold any relationship with such schmucks.

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Post by SheikBen Sun May 17, 2009 9:42 am

And as far as homosexual couples go, Terry, they are behaving by choice, even if their preferences aren't (which I am not convinced of).

A black person cannot help but be black. A gay man can choose not to have sex.

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Post by Stephanie Sun May 17, 2009 10:16 am

Keli wrote:IF we redefine marriage to include same-sex marriage, by what law or religious standard does marriage have to be limited to two people? Do you think that IF, three or four people (or more) get "married," that increase in insured employees and dependents would not affect employers and businesses?

Keli,

I have no desire to "redefine" marriage. My position on this issue has evolved. I'm 45 years old. I didn't know what "gay" was, or even that such a thing existed, until I was 12.

Over the course of the past 33 years I have come to realize the government shouldn't be in the marriage business. Let the churches handle that and let them determine who they will and will not marry, just as they always have. Everyone else should have whatever kind of a ceremony or party they want performed by whoever they choose and sign a contract. This would include people like my children who are all either agnostic or atheist.
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Post by Aaron Sun May 17, 2009 10:33 am

Keli wrote:IF we redefine marriage to include same-sex marriage, by what law or religious standard does marriage have to be limited to two people? Do you think that IF, three or four people (or more) get "married," that increase in insured employees and dependents would not affect employers and businesses?

How about the governement get out of the marriage business altogether, stop rewarding taxpayers for getting 'married' and allow one head of househould to claim exemptions for those he/she supports?
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