Re: belated DMV posting

by Aaron Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:03 pm

I just spoke with the DMV call center two times and had the last spokesperson double check to ensure what she was telling me is correct.

The first said, nope, if nothing has changed on your license then all you have to do is bring in your renewal slip and a proof of residency.

I found the notice on this thead and called back and was told the same thing. When I ask the lady about the Real ID Act, she said "We did receive an email..., let me put you on hold and double check." After a few minutes, she came back on line and said, almost verbatim, "We will renew until January 1st, 2011 without the birth certificate so long as nothing else has changed. If you lose your license, move or require another licens after that date, you will be required to bring in a certified copy of your birth certificat."

I ask her if nothing changed between now and my next renewal 5 years from now, what then and she said "You will be required to bring in a copy of your certified birth certificate at that time."

Ziggy got lucky as I will next week in that he beat the deadline by a few days. Otherwise, he's still wrong.

If you doubt me, feel free to make your own call to the call center at 304-558-3900 and ask about the Real ID act and when you are required to bring in a birth certificate.

by ziggy Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:17 pm

Otherwise, he's still wrong.

About what? It went just as I figured it would. I was not lucky. I was right! And so was TRC.

When you're right, you don't have to be lucky.

by Aaron Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:18 pm

ziggy wrote:
Otherwise, he's still wrong.

About what? It went just as I figured it would. I was not lucky. I was right! And so was TRC.

When you're right, you don't have to be lucky.

About the Real ID act requiring a birth certificate to renew your license. Just because the procedure has not been implemented for all drives license does not make you right. My kids had to show birth certificates as far back as 7 years ago. Stephanie had to show hers. Renewals will begin January 1, 2011.

No two ways abour it, you are still wrong and had you bothered to ask someone at the DMV, you would know that.

But I"m sure you do know the truth given that you took the time to point out your renewal form didn't state you had to bring a birth certificate and given that fact the DMV in notices posted in their office in Kanawha City of the new policy

The fact that you would prefer to admit the truth, the Real ID Act requires a birth certificate regardless of the effective date for renewals and instead post fallacies shows that in addition to being wrong, you're an ass as well.

by ziggy Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:32 pm

I may well be an ass. That is a judgment call.

But I did not post any "fallacies". I said that I had never had to show anything else, that my renewal form didn't ask for anything else, and now that I was not asked for anything else when I renewed yesterday. You and Stephanie both insisted that this time around I would need a birth certificate. I said that I would not need it, and I didn't need it.

I did not make any predictions about what might or might not be required at some time in the future.

So again, what was I "wrong" about?

by Aaron Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:48 pm

I stated the Real ID act will require every citizen to show their birth certificates to renew their license and they will. That's not a prediction, it's a fact with proof laid out numerous times in this thread. Your refusal to admit that FACT does not change the truth.

And my judgement is far more often correct then not. Keep talking and prove me right.

by **Stephanie** Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:33 am

I can't understand why I had to show so much documentation and you had to show so little. I didn't have to just produce my birth certificate, but my marriage certificate, TWO proofs of residency, plus my RI license AND my social security card.

by Aaron Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:30 am

Different parts of the Real ID act are being phased in at different time periods Stephanie. School kids had to show birth certificates almost a decade ago when the Real ID Act was first being discussed, before passage in 2005.

The last part (other then a national ID card) to be phased in for West Virginia is license renewal. The date that all new renewals are required to provide a birth certificate is Jan 1, 2011. Anyone getting a license including renewal, lost license, reinstated license or any other reason AFTER Jan 1, 2011 will have to provide a certified copy of their birth certificate. That includes Ziggy whether he loses his license and needs a replacement, changes address or his next renewal regardless of his age.

Anyone getting a new license, state transfers and or any changes in their license information was required to provide a birth certificate effective Jan 1, 2010. That is why you had to show your documentation. It's simply a matter of when the requirements are phased in and is common when new government programs are implemented.

I would suspect that Ziggy knew all of this when he posted earlier this week but as Sam likes to point out, he is a tad dishonest thus he tried to make it appear he was right and others were wrong when that simply wasn't the case.

by ziggy Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:11 pm

I didn't have to make it appear anything- because I was right. That I was able to renew my driver's license without having a birth certificate speaks for itself.

Sam pointing out that I was "dishonest" in any of this is bogus on two counts: (1) Despite what Sam says, I was able to renew without DMV changing my middle initial to my full middle name on my driver's license, and (2) I did not need to have a birth certificate when I renewed last time, nor the time before that, nor 20 years ago, nor 40 years ago. As is often, Sam just doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about.

So to demonstarte that I am "dishonest", you'll need more evidence than SamCogar's ignorant rants.

by Aaron Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:04 pm

I don't need to demostrate anything dude but for what it's worth, your response coupled with the fact that I know the notices are posted in the DMV are enough for me to believe you've been dishonest in what you've posted here. Others can make up their own mind.

by SamCogar Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:31 pm

Re: belated DMV posting by ziggy on Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:11 pm

ziggy wrote:I didn't have to make it appear anything- because I was right. That I was able to renew my driver's license without having a birth certificate speaks for itself.

Sam pointing out that I was "dishonest" in any of this is bogus on two counts: (1) Despite what Sam says, I was able to renew without DMV changing my middle initial to my full middle name on my driver's license, and (2) I did not need to have a birth certificate when I renewed last time, nor the time before that, nor 20 years ago, nor 40 years ago. As is often, Sam just doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about.

So to demonstarte that I am "dishonest", you'll need more evidence than SamCogar's ignorant rants.

Acts of dishonesty not only includes acts that a person does, …… but also acts that a person intentionally doesn’t do, to wit:

"Dishonesty" means a crime which includes, but is not limited to, any offense involving perjury, bribery, forgery, counterfeiting, false or misleading oral or written statements, deception, fraud, schemes or artifices to deceive or defraud, material misrepresentations and the failure to disclose material facts.

And Zigster, knowing full well that Stephanie, being a new citizen of the State, was surely unaware of and/or ignorant of many of the Laws and Statutes of the State and the DMV, ….. and he himself having 40 years of knowledge and experience of said, …… plus his very bestest friend having been a WVSP and an assured expert on the subject from which I am sure Ziggy learned much concerning said, ….. still chose to include ONLY the following in his 1st post to this thread.

Re: belated DMV posting by ziggy on Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:24 pm

ziggy wrote:
Stephanie wrote:I seem to recall that both Terry & Ziggy argued with me when I insisted they would be required to show their birth certificate when renewing their license. I not only had to show my birth certificate, but my marriage certificate and two proofs of residency AND my social security card.

I have my drivers license renewal form in front of me, and which I need to process in a few weeks . It lists various documents, any one of which may be used to prove identity and to prove residency. To prove identity all I need is my current driver's license- same as when I renewed five years ago . To prove residency all I need is a current utility bill. They do not demand my birth certifcate, nor my marriage license, nor anything beyond what I needed when I renewed the last time around 5 years ago. What is all the fuss about?

Ziggy intentionally chose not to divulge the differencee between a resident DL re-newal ..... and ..... a new resident DL Application.

And Zig, if your "current driver's license" was, or your DL of 5 years ago was, ....... PROOF OF YOUR IDENTITY, ...... then why in hell won't your newly gotten DL be all that you will need to PROVE YOUR IDENTITY the next time you get your DL renewed.

DUH, because your current and all past DL's are not and never have been actual, factual PROOF OF YOUR IDENTITY.

by ziggy Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:26 pm

Ziggy intentionally chose not to divulge the differencee between a resident DL re-newal ..... and ..... a new resident DL Application.

I did not "chose not to divulge" anything. If Stephanie's was a new resident application instead of a resident renewal, how were we to know that a month ago and more when she insisted that I would need a birth certificate (and my social security card) to renew? She did not tell us that then, nor did she tell us that four or five months ago when we had this same discussion on another thread here?

What she said was, "I seem to recall that both Terry & Ziggy argued with me when I insisted they would be required to show their birth certificate when renewing their license. I not only had to show my birth certificate, but my marriage certificate and two proofs of residency AND my social security card." I presumed that she was talking about the same thing we were- renewing our WV driver's license. If she was talking about something else, she did not say so.

And Zig, if your "current driver's license" was, or your DL of 5 years ago was, ....... PROOF OF YOUR IDENTITY, ...... then why in hell won't your newly gotten DL be all that you will need to PROVE YOUR IDENTITY the next time you get your DL renewed.

I don't know. Maybe it will be. Stephanie and Aaron and Armon Ayers (aka Keli) have not been very accurate in telling us what we would need to renew it in 2010. Maybe we'll find that out in 5 years. Maybe DMV will want more "proof" of my identity then. Or maybe not. We'll see.

DUH, because your current and all past DL's are not and never have been actual, factual PROOF OF YOUR IDENTITY.

For purposes of the discussion at hand- renewal of my WV driver's license in November 2010- it is indeed "actual, factual" proof of my identity according to both the renewal application- as I told Stephanie earlier- and the action of the DMV clerk in renewing my license without asking for any further "proof".

Absent finger prints or DNA evidence of record, or other scientific "actual, factual" proof, there is no "actual, factual PROOF" of anyone's identity anyway.

My birth certificate is not "proof" of my identity. All it shows is that it is recorded somewhere that someone who was assigned that name was born on such-and-such date, at such-and-such place, to such-and-such parents. That one is in possession of a "birth certificate" is not "proof of identity".

by Aaron Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:11 pm

I've been pretty accurate in everything I've said dude including that your continued talking is proving how much of an ass you are.

by ziggy Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:59 pm

You and Sam have both accused me of being dishonest. Yet neither of you have shown even one shred of evidence that I am. To be "pretty accurate" you would need to do better than that.

Again, I have never denied being an ass- even an ignorant one sometimes. So tell us something we don't all already know.

by ziggy Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:22 pm

Aaron wrote:I've been pretty accurate in everything I've said dude ........................................... .

Yeah, yeah, sure you have, "dude":

Aaron wrote:
ziggy wrote:But were I asked to show anyone proof of my legal citizenship status, I don't think I could. So maybe I am lucky that I don't look Hispanic and travel in Arizona.

Sure you could. Your ID is accepted as legal citizenship as you will find out when you go to renew your license and are required to bring in your vital statistics state issued birth certificate. If you don't have one, go pay the $12 and get it because you're going to need it.

https://gazzfriends.forumotion.com/national-politics-f6/i-m-a-legal-american-citizen-and-i-must-show-my-id-when-t4632-30.htm

by Aaron Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:03 pm

You happened to beat a date, a vital statistics birth certificate will be required for license renewal and you're still still an ass. Anything else?

by **Stephanie** Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:54 pm

If Stephanie's was a new resident application instead of a resident renewal, how were we to know that a month ago and more when she insisted that I would need a birth certificate (and my social security card) to renew? She did not tell us that then, nor did she tell us that four or five months ago when we had this same discussion on another thread here?

Stephanie's Embarrassing Story

OK, so you all know I've lived in WV for quite some time, for years in fact. However, I never got a WV driver's license. Oh, I tried, but it seemed to me they kept changing the rules.

The first time I went down there I checked online to see what the DMV said I needed. I honestly thought I had everything. I had my birth certificate, my RI license, my checkbook & probably my insurance bill. Well, my checkbook wasn't acceptable to them for proof of residence. Bah humbug.

So, a few weeks later I went down there to register an old truck my looney husband purchased and I tried again. That time I brought my newly printed voter registration card.

That time they told me I needed a copy of my marriage certificate because my name changed. Holy shit.....why didn't they just tell me that to begin with? So now I'm BEYOND frustrated because I can't find my damn marriage certificate..it got lost in the move. I don't know but with me here it wasn't easy to get a copy of that from RI.

by ziggy Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:24 pm

Aaron wrote:You happened to beat a date, .....................................................

No, it was you who beat a date- because you didn't know that what you insisted was correct had not taken effect. That is not my fault. You said I would need a birth certificate to renew- period. You did not say that after a certain future date I would need a birth certificate. TRC and I were exactly right on that discussion- both saying that we had not needed and would not need a birth certificate for my upcoming DL renewal- and I didn't. You were so desperate to make TRC and me out to be "asses" that you became one yourself by throwing caution to the wind and spouting off about that which you did not understand until- if even then- you called someone or other at DMV a few days ago. TRC and I were right all along. You were wrong all along. But somehow that makes me an ass? Ass, heal thyself first.

by Aaron Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:07 am

ziggy wrote:
Aaron wrote:You happened to beat a date, .....................................................

No, it was you who beat a date- because you didn't know that what you insisted was correct had not taken effect.That is not my fault. You said I would need a birth certificate to renew- period. You did not say that after a certain future date I would need a birth certificate.

No, Ziggy, I did not say that to you or TRC, on this or any other thread. Why must you lie?

What I stated on another thread is that is true is that the Real ID act will require a vital statistics issued birth certificate to obtain a license and that wasn't to you, it was to TRC. TRC pointed out on this thread that wasn't the case for him. In my comments, I hit the nail on the head as to why he wasn't required to provide that proof YET. Do you dispute any of those facts?

Aaron wrote:You RENEWED your license without a birth certificate, and possibly without a proof of residence. It could have been for a number of reasons.

Perhaps they were not requiring renewals at that time or perhaps even though it was law, the DMV you went to wasn't enforcing that portion of the Real ID Act. That doesn't change the facts that WV has been requiring birth certificates of proof of citizenship for new drivers license AND ID cards for at least 7 years.

My first direct response to you on this thread was after I informed others as to why you were not required to show your birth certificate when you renewed your license this year. It was at that point that you got bitchy and attempted to play word games which begs the question, why do you have to resort to underhanded tactics, dishonesty and lies like that Ziggy to prove a point?

ziggy wrote:TRC and I were exactly right on that discussion- both saying that we had not needed and would not need a birth certificate for my upcoming DL renewal- and I didn't.

TRC didn't have a clue what he was talking about. He didn't know when any provision of the Real ID Act would take effect and thought that simply because he didn't have to do something, it wasn't going to happen. As usual, he was wrong.

You on the other hand, I'm pretty confident knew the provisions of the Real ID Act and when each would take effect all along. As such, I'm sure that's why you started running your mouth on this thread. You thought you could make someone look bad by distorting the facts of the situation because you knew something others didn't. That's your MO Ziggy and it's why Sam refers to you as dishonest, Cato feels about you the way he does and why I have zero respect for you.

ziggy wrote:You were so desperate to make TRC and me out to be "asses" that you became one yourself by throwing caution to the wind and spouting off about that which you did not understand until- if even then- you called someone or other at DMV a few days ago. TRC and I were right all along. You were wrong all along. But somehow that makes me an ass? Ass, heal thyself first.

I don't think I've ever been desperate for anything in my life Ziggy. That comes when one doesn't have an agenda, is willing to admit when they are wrong and is not a dishonest person, unlike you.

I certainly didn't throw anything to the wind as my post prove. My assessment as to why TRC, despite the notice Sam posted, did not require a birth certificate to renew his drivers license this year was (as usual) spot on.

I have nothing to heal, the Real ID Act still requires that EVERYONE will show their birth certificate to either renew or obtain a license and you're still an ass.

Anything else?

by wvsasha Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:04 pm

My birth certificate is not "proof" of my identity. All it shows is that it is recorded somewhere that someone who was assigned that name was born on such-and-such date, at such-and-such place, to such-and-such parents. That one is in possession of a "birth certificate" is not "proof of identity".

I am running to this issue with trying to get a copy of my eldest daughter's SS card - her's was lost in the move. In order to get a copy, I have to have a certified copy of her birth certificate and proof of identify. Putnam County Schools don't issue photo student IDs. The only thing we can come up with is the school driver application that has been signed by the county. There is nothing on that form that is a picture or even description of the child.

A birth certificate isn't considered proof of identify and my affidavit isn't enough anymore I guess.

I almost feel like I"m going in circles to get my child her learner's permit.

by **Stephanie** Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:41 pm

I'm pretty sure that if you have a health issurance card with her name on it that will count. Good luck, you're going to need it.

by wvsasha Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:58 pm

Our insurance card doesn't even have MY name on it - just the person whose paycheck actually pays the premiums.

Thanks for the luck - yeah - we're gonna need it! Smile

by Aaron Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:05 pm

wvsasha wrote:
My birth certificate is not "proof" of my identity. All it shows is that it is recorded somewhere that someone who was assigned that name was born on such-and-such date, at such-and-such place, to such-and-such parents. That one is in possession of a "birth certificate" is not "proof of identity".

I am running to this issue with trying to get a copy of my eldest daughter's SS card - her's was lost in the move. In order to get a copy, I have to have a certified copy of her birth certificate and proof of identify. Putnam County Schools don't issue photo student IDs. The only thing we can come up with is the school driver application that has been signed by the county. There is nothing on that form that is a picture or even description of the child.

A birth certificate isn't considered proof of identify and my affidavit isn't enough anymore I guess.

I almost feel like I"m going in circles to get my child her learner's permit.

An affidavit by a family doctor, if you have one here Stephanie, is proof enough for Social Security to get a new card.

And Ziggy is wrong in that a birth certificate does not prove identity, at least as far as the WV DMV is concerned. It also proves citizenship.

by wvsasha Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:06 pm

And Ziggy is wrong in that a birth certificate does not prove identity, at least as far as the WV DMV is concerned. It also proves citizenship.

So why isn't the birth certificate enough for my daughter to get her driver's license?

by Aaron Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:08 pm

It doesn't prove residency. It also doesn't prove she is going to school which is required if she is under the age of 18.

by **Stephanie** Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:10 pm

Can you imagine how difficult it must be for people who lose everything to natural disaster or fire?

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