Re: A Taste of Terrorism – Crudely Bitter

by ziggy Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:20 am

Aaron wrote:The liberal left isn't solely responsible for no new refineries or power plant construction in the past 30+ years!!!

What b.s.! There have been many new power plants constructed in the U.S. in the past 30 years- with tens of thousands of megawatts of new generating capacity. But because they are fueled with something other than coal you pretend and would have us believe that they don't even exist.

The refining of oil in the U.S. has increased significantly in the past 30 years.

U.S. oil demand slips in 2006, refinery capacity expands - API

“Markets worked and suppliers and consumers responded to market signals,” said API Chief Economist John Felmy. “This is a dramatic difference from the supply shocks of the 1970s when markets were not allowed to function and consumers suffered sitting in long gas lines.”

The API statistics also showed that U.S. refineries and blenders produced record amounts of gasoline and distillate fuel oil in 2006 and refinery capacity expanded for the 10th straight year. Since 1996, U.S. refiners have expanded capacity by more than 2 million barrels per day, or 14 percent. The blending of ethanol into gasoline reached a new high of more than five billion gallons and production of new clean-burning ultra low-sulfur diesel fuel topped a record 2.6 million barrels per day by the fourth quarter.

http://www.api.org/Newsroom/us-oil-demand-2006.cfm .

by Aaron Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:25 am

Refinning capacity has increased but not in a manner that will meet our current and future demands. Oil companies have been forced to expand at current 30+ year old facilities spending billions trying to upgrade out of date plants because the liberal left has prevented every attempt to build mondern refineries to meet America's needs. The 'increase' you tout is only marginal and is not enough for us to reduce imports of gasoline.

And I notice you posted no link to all of the "new" plants that are providing so much energy. If there are so many of them then we are we in the midst of an energy crisis?

by ziggy Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:10 am

Here is a list of more than 16,000 power plants in the U.S. as of 2006:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/page/capacity/existingunits2006.xls

A quick perusal shows that the majority of those power plant generating units came on line within the past 30 years.

A quick addition of less than 2 percent of those shows that of those that did come on line within the past 30 years, that 500 megawatts of new generating capacity. Extrapolated to 100 percent, that would calculate to about 30,000 megawatts of additional generating capacity in the United States in the past 30 years.

And that does not even include the several units that have come on line in the past 2 years.

The myth that "no new power plants have been constructed in the past 30 years is just that- a myth. Why do the advocates of more and more coal have to resort to such a disinformation campaign to make their case?

by ziggy Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:41 am

Aaron wrote:Refining capacity has increased but not in a manner that will meet our current and future demands.

The demand is being met. The future will need to adjust to future demands- as it always has.

Oil companies have been forced to expand at current 30+ year old facilities spending billions trying to upgrade out of date plants because the liberal left has prevented every attempt to build mondern refineries to meet America's needs. The 'increase' you tout is only marginal and is not enough for us to reduce imports of gasoline.

That new construction has consisted of retro-fitting and upgrading capacity at existing refineries, while maybe not to your liking, puts lie to your and others' oft repeated claim that no new refinery constrction has taken place in the past 30 years.

Indeed, it is the manufacturing and other industrial sectors that lobbied state legislatures for "Brownfillds" legislation that allows what you are now bitching about- the virtually unemcumbered reuse of existing industrial properties for new constructions as opposed to needing to always go out and find "new" property for industrial activities. It (Brownfileds legislation) is one area in which traditional conservationists have been able to lobby and otherwise work alongside industries in West Virginia and elsewhere.

And I notice you posted no link to all of the "new" plants that are providing so much energy.

I did post the link. You might want to spend some hours and cypherin' energy to examine it.

If there are so many of them then we are we in the midst of an energy crisis.

Oh yes, that "energy crisis". That term first came into cliched use about 35 years ago. The "energy crisis" is a deliberately manufactured "crisis". It is manufactured by and for those who need an excuse for higher fuel costs, by and for those who advocate increased militarism as a cure for everything imaginable, and by and for those who seek to make whipping boys of those phantom "liberals" who supposedly roadblock everything from curing the "energy crisis" to curing hemmorrhoids. When we're lookin' to "whup up" on the voices that poke our social consciences, one excuse is a good as another.

4 or 5 decades ago it was fashoinable to whup up on and make grandiose unsubstianted claims about the phantom "communists" in the state departmnent and in the entertainment industry, and their unpatrioitic sympathizers all over. J. Edgar Hoover even said that it was "communists" who were the fomenters of racial discord.

4 decades ago it was those hated peacenik cowards, copperheads, or whatever the term of the week was for belittling those who opposed a useless war that was unwinnable.

5 - 6 years ago it was the skeptics whose "lack of patriotism" in non-support of those who heralded WMDs as the perfect excuse to invade Iraq.

Today it is those who don't salute or fall flat on their face in support of solving the once again contrived, much hyped "energy crisis" with more militarism and more environmental debauchery.

When you are looking for a convenient whipping boy, one excuse is as good as another. Physicians, heal thyselves first.

by **SheikBen** Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:33 pm

Ziggy,

Jimmy Carter did massive damage to nuclear power. Ask any employee (union included) in the industry

As to learning from the French, any educated person knows of the contribution of the enlightenment thinkers to our nation's founders. We loathe the French as (to quote Bart Simpson) they are "cheese eating surrender monkeys," but we surely do not reject anything just because the French do it, as opposed to the left which has come to the conclusion that anything Bush does or believes in must be by definition wrong.

by Aaron Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:33 pm

I did some research on the old forum and came up with 46 proposed refineries, everyone shot down by the liberal left. They brownfiled becasue they have no other choice because of the likes of you and yours. No matter how stringent of criteria they meet, you guys challenge more and more and you'll do whatever it takes to make sure no new refineries or nuclear power plants are being built.

AEP has proposed spending billions to build new power plants to replace old, out of date ones and you guys keep protesting and suing to the point that the proposed plant in Meigs County that was supposed to be done in 2009 isn't scheduled to even begin production until 2012. And we both know it's not going to happen then, especially if a liberal wins the white house.

It's not NAFTA or CAFTA or anything else that's destroyed our manufacturing and other industry, it's the liberal left and there's no end in sight.

by SamCogar Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:42 pm

ziggy wrote:
SheikBen wrote:I say the answer is nuclear power.

The best nuclear power technology- safest and most efficient- in the world today appears to be that which exists and continues to expand in France- and with France being the world's largest exporter of electricity.

YADA, ..... YADA, ...... YADA, .......

At the present time, many important vessels in the United States Navy are powered by United States naval reactors. All submarines and all but one aircraft carrier (11) are nuclear powered. Several cruisers (9) were nuclear powered but these have all been retired.

The United States Navy operates the largest fleet of nuclear submarines By 1989, there were over 400 nuclear-powered submarines operational or being built. Some 250 of these submarines have now been scrapped and some on order cancelled, due to weapons reduction programs. Russia and the United States had over one hundred each, with the United Kingdom and France fewer than twenty each and China six.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_navy

by SamCogar Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:47 pm

Stephanie wrote:Sam,

Bush can't get his judicial nominees confirmed because of Bush's lack of leadership and negotiating skills. Bush, btw, played a major role in the loss of seats held by Republicans in both houses of Congress.

He can't get his judges confirmed because of his inadequacies and his malfeasance. You both can cry me a river.

That was truly a pathetic post. geek

.

by Aaron Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:53 pm

Stephanie wrote:Sam,

Bush can't get his judicial nominees confirmed because of Bush's lack of leadership and negotiating skills. Bush, btw, played a major role in the loss of seats held by Republicans in both houses of Congress.

He can't get his judges confirmed because of his inadequacies and his malfeasance. You both can cry me a river.

Negotiating means compromise.

You've stated many times that Ron Paul doesn't compromise which I correctly pointed out that meant he wouldn't be able to negotiate with either side of Congress, you said he wouldn't have.

By your own admission, a President has to have those skills. So what gives? Why is it bad that GWB isn't a negotiator but you stated it was a positive point for Paul???

Seems to me you flip about as much as a democrat!!!

by **Stephanie** Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:57 pm

SamCogar wrote:
Stephanie wrote:Sam,

Bush can't get his judicial nominees confirmed because of Bush's lack of leadership and negotiating skills. Bush, btw, played a major role in the loss of seats held by Republicans in both houses of Congress.

He can't get his judges confirmed because of his inadequacies and his malfeasance. You both can cry me a river.

That was truly a pathetic post.

.

The truth hurts. What's pathetic is the job Bush has done.

by ziggy Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:19 pm

Aaron wrote:I did some research on the old forum and came up with 46 proposed refineries, everyone shot down by the liberal left. They brownfiled becasue they have no other choice because of the likes of you and yours. No matter how stringent of criteria they meet, you guys challenge more and more and you'll do whatever it takes to make sure no new refineries or nuclear power plants are being built.

AEP has proposed spending billions to build new power plants to replace old, out of date ones and you guys keep protesting and suing to the point that the proposed plant in Meigs County that was supposed to be done in 2009 isn't scheduled to even begin production until 2012. And we both know it's not going to happen then, especially if a liberal wins the white house.

It's not NAFTA or CAFTA or anything else that's destroyed our manufacturing and other industry, it's the liberal left and there's no end in sight.

So because the dozens, hundreds of power plants that have come on line in the past 30 years are not coal fired plants, you and your coal buddies tell us that NO new plants have been constructed in the past 30 years. Why doesn't it count as new construction unless it's coal?

I showed you that at least 30,000 or so megawatts have been constructed generation capacity since 1978. Why, like George Bush, do you persist on such lies when the truth would serve you better?

by shermangeneral Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:05 pm

There is a good and legitimate reason why they won't say it was about oil.

I suspect others on the forum besides myself realize this.

by Aaron Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:23 pm

ziggy wrote:
Aaron wrote:I did some research on the old forum and came up with 46 proposed refineries, everyone shot down by the liberal left. They brownfiled becasue they have no other choice because of the likes of you and yours. No matter how stringent of criteria they meet, you guys challenge more and more and you'll do whatever it takes to make sure no new refineries or nuclear power plants are being built.

AEP has proposed spending billions to build new power plants to replace old, out of date ones and you guys keep protesting and suing to the point that the proposed plant in Meigs County that was supposed to be done in 2009 isn't scheduled to even begin production until 2012. And we both know it's not going to happen then, especially if a liberal wins the white house.

It's not NAFTA or CAFTA or anything else that's destroyed our manufacturing and other industry, it's the liberal left and there's no end in sight.

So because the dozens, hundreds of power plants that have come on line in the past 30 years are not coal fired plants, you and your coal buddies tell us that NO new plants have been constructed in the past 30 years. Why doesn't it count as new construction unless it's coal?

I showed you that at least 30,000 or so megawatts have been constructed generation capacity since 1978. Why, like George Bush, do you persist on such lies when the truth would serve you better?

You were the one that mentioned coal. I was talking about Nuclear, which was the topic. The plant in Meigs County is just one example of how far the liberal left will go. The plant will not burn coal. It will convert coal to a liquid and then burn that and the greenie's still want to keep it from coming online even though it received the approval of the DEP and will replace 3 to 4 coal buring plants once online. But that's still not good enough for you guys on the far left, is it!!!

by Aaron Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:24 pm

shermangeneral wrote:There is a good and legitimate reason why they won't say it was about oil.

I suspect others on the forum besides myself realize this.

And what is that reason Sherm?

by ziggy Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:14 pm

Aaron wrote:
ziggy wrote:
Aaron wrote:I did some research on the old forum and came up with 46 proposed refineries, everyone shot down by the liberal left. They brownfiled becasue they have no other choice because of the likes of you and yours. No matter how stringent of criteria they meet, you guys challenge more and more and you'll do whatever it takes to make sure no new refineries or nuclear power plants are being built.

AEP has proposed spending billions to build new power plants to replace old, out of date ones and you guys keep protesting and suing to the point that the proposed plant in Meigs County that was supposed to be done in 2009 isn't scheduled to even begin production until 2012. And we both know it's not going to happen then, especially if a liberal wins the white house.

It's not NAFTA or CAFTA or anything else that's destroyed our manufacturing and other industry, it's the liberal left and there's no end in sight.

So because the dozens, hundreds of power plants that have come on line in the past 30 years are not coal fired plants, you and your coal buddies tell us that NO new plants have been constructed in the past 30 years. Why doesn't it count as new construction unless it's coal?

I showed you that at least 30,000 or so megawatts have been constructed generation capacity since 1978. Why, like George Bush, do you persist on such lies when the truth would serve you better?

You were the one that mentioned coal. I was talking about Nuclear, which was the topic. The plant in Meigs County is just one example of how far the liberal left will go. The plant will not burn coal. It will convert coal to a liquid and then burn that and the greenie's still want to keep it from coming online even though it received the approval of the DEP and will replace 3 to 4 coal buring plants once online. But that's still not good enough for you guys on the far left, is it!!!

by ziggy Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:35 pm

ziggy wrote:The plant in Meigs County is just one example of how far the liberal left will go. The plant will not burn coal. It will convert coal to a liquid and then burn that and the greenie's still want to keep it from coming online even though it received the approval of the DEP and will replace 3 to 4 coal buring plants once online.

Whether it turns it into liquid, or methane, or even pure hydrogen- none of that mitigates the social miseries realized in the extraction of coal- especially the strip mining of coal. "Clean coal" technology does nothing to help the people in the hills and hollows whose lives are made miserable every day by endless blasting, endless dust, the threat posed by billions of gallons of coal sludge perched in lakes in the hollows above homes and schools, 60 to 90 ton coal trucks on narrow and crooked two-lane mountain roads designed for Model Ts, the constant threat of flash floods rolling down off those thousands of acres of denuded, hard-packed mountains and valley fills- and now even personal threats and actual acts of retribution against residents for doing nothing more than insisting that the coal mining laws be enforced.

The promises of "clean coal" do nothing to help the victims of coal extraction by strip mining.

by SamCogar Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:11 am

ziggy wrote:

Whether it turns it into liquid, or methane, or even pure hydrogen- none of that mitigates the social miseries realized in the extraction of coal- especially the strip mining of coal. "Clean coal" technology does nothing to help the people in the hills and hollows whose lives are made miserable every day by endless blasting, endless dust, the threat posed by billions of gallons of coal sludge perched in lakes in the hollows above homes and schools, 60 to 90 ton coal trucks on narrow and crooked two-lane mountain roads designed for Model Ts, the constant threat of flash floods rolling down off those thousands of acres of denuded, hard-packed mountains and valley fills- and now even personal threats and actual acts of retribution against residents for doing nothing more than insisting that the coal mining laws be enforced.

The promises of "clean coal" do nothing to help the victims of coal extraction by strip mining.

Well, ...... just shut er down, .......

Just shut down, close the gates and fire every employee on/at every coal extraction site from northern Kanawha County east, south and west, to the WV border.

Then Ziggy, you can sit back on your arse and watch those "people in the hills and hollows whose lives were made miserable every day" ....... make a drastic change in their lifestyle thus initating a socio-economic recovery that will surpass any other ever witnessed in the US in the past 100 years.

YUP, t'would be the greatest and bestest Reconstruction since the Civil War ended.

Yes sireeeeeee, Zigster, your one (1) action "Plan" to:

"Just shut er down"

will have such excellent results that ShermanGeneral will be trying to give Bob Byrd credit for it.

YUP, wouldn't doubt for a second, Zig, that your "Plan", .... if implemented, .... would create such a robust economy that those folks in said hills and hollows and valleys, ....... instead of waiting around for a handout from the ARC, ....... would soon be donating large sum$ of money to the ARC.

Zigstern, ...... lol!

.

by ziggy Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:51 am

Or, on the other hand, Sam, the coal companys could be good neighbors and obey the mining laws, and state and federal agencies could enforce the mining laws.

by SamCogar Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:38 pm

Oh, I hear what you are saying Zigster, ........ you want the coal companies to operate their businesses ........ like you operated your business ....... and everyone but the coal operators can make tons n' tons of money ....... and after all the coal has been mined the coal operators can then sell their "coal deplenished" property to the State for the un-paid taxes they owe and retire.

Sounds to me like a great business plan, Ziggy, ........ I'm surprised the coal operators haven't thought of that. Laughing

.

by Aaron Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:10 pm

ziggy wrote:
ziggy wrote:The plant in Meigs County is just one example of how far the liberal left will go. The plant will not burn coal. It will convert coal to a liquid and then burn that and the greenie's still want to keep it from coming online even though it received the approval of the DEP and will replace 3 to 4 coal buring plants once online.

Whether it turns it into liquid, or methane, or even pure hydrogen- none of that mitigates the social miseries realized in the extraction of coal- especially the strip mining of coal. "Clean coal" technology does nothing to help the people in the hills and hollows whose lives are made miserable every day by endless blasting, endless dust, the threat posed by billions of gallons of coal sludge perched in lakes in the hollows above homes and schools, 60 to 90 ton coal trucks on narrow and crooked two-lane mountain roads designed for Model Ts, the constant threat of flash floods rolling down off those thousands of acres of denuded, hard-packed mountains and valley fills- and now even personal threats and actual acts of retribution against residents for doing nothing more than insisting that the coal mining laws be enforced.

The promises of "clean coal" do nothing to help the victims of coal extraction by strip mining.

That's a bunch of propaganic crap that's put forth by a liberal orgainzation that is supported by less then 1 in 10 individual that live in the coal fields. I know because I've talked to many people about the 'Coal River Mountain Watch' and I've had one person tell me they do good. The rest think you guys are a joke and I'm sure they'd get a kick if they knew how much misery you think they're in.

I talked to one man from just outside Seth and he stated that he went to one meeting led by a 'bunch of dumba$$ed city folk that think they know what's best for me' and one lady told me 'coals put food on my families and a roof over our head for 50 years and I don't think it'll change over the next 50 so those people need to stay out of Boone County unless they're going to create jobs that pay what mining does..."

Seems your victims don't see things the same way you do Zig but you already knew that, didn't you!!!

by ziggy Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:21 pm

Don't you read the letters to the editor columns, Aaron? Hell, even the paid Friends of Coal staff can't keep up with the opposition.

Do you know how many letters of public comment go in on permit applications? Do you know what percentage of those are "for" and "against". The opposition to MTR is a hell of a lot more than one in ten.

by **Stephanie** Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:24 pm

My in-laws are a coal mining family. Some did get out, like my FIL who retired from the railroad. Others mined coal until retirement. There are even a few in my husband's generation mining coal today. They are all, every single last one I have spoken to, opposed to both MTR and strip mining.

by SamCogar Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:59 am

ziggy wrote:Don't you read the letters to the editor columns, Aaron? Hell, even the paid Friends of Coal staff can't keep up with the opposition.

Do you know how many letters of public comment go in on permit applications? Do you know what percentage of those are "for" and "against". The opposition to MTR is a hell of a lot more than one in ten.

Sure nuff Zigster, ........ and how many did you write to the Editors? Razz

And you are not a coal miner, never have been, never had to depend on coal mining to support your livelyhood and have never lived in "coal country".

And you claim to be a frigging expert on "coal troubles" just because you read n' believe every negative "Letter to the Editor" in the newspapers.

GEEEZUS, you were even telling that coal miner that once posted on the G-Forums that he didn't know what the hell he was talking about and accused him of devious claims.

Bout 10 years ago they announced plans to build a Federal Prison in Gilmer County and the "naysayers" like yourself came out of the woodwork and launched a tirade of lies, distortions, fears and bullshidt against building said Prison, including writing dozens n' dozens of "Letters to Editors" of newspapers.

Of course, none of those people needed a good job, wanted a good job and didn't really give a damn if anyone else had one. They all either had a good job, were retired with good pay and benefits, on disability or public assistance ......... or "scared to death" about what they were reading in the newspapers that the consumate "naysayers" were writing.

Well, that Prison was built, has been operating for 4 or 5 years, and none of the evil, dastardly things the "naysayers" were claiming ever occured. Ya never hear it mentioned anymore except when ya hear comments about someone "getting hired at a good job" there at the Prison.

Zigster, none of those prisoners have escaped ....... and raped ........ a young school girl or anyone's grandmother, ..... as was claimed would surely happen.

.

by SamCogar Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:00 am

Stephanie wrote:My in-laws are a coal mining family. Some did get out, like my FIL who retired from the railroad. Others mined coal until retirement. There are even a few in my husband's generation mining coal today. They are all, every single last one I have spoken to, opposed to both MTR and strip mining.

YUP, and just about all, every single last Public School Teacher you speak to, will be opposed to both Charter Schools and home teaching. Razz

As the wife says, ..... "Its the nature of the brute."

Now Steph, everyone knows that Ziggy can work/manage/operate a business for years n' years without making enough profits to pay himself a "living wage" to take care of his family's wants and needs, ........ but can your husband do that?

Do you know of any other worker, business owner/operator that can do that?

Stephanie, why don't you compare, ...... weigh one against the other, ...... Ziggies claims of the "social miseries realized in the extraction of coal" .......... to the "social miseries that would occur if no coal was extracted".

Steph, compare Ziggy's "social miseries" to the following "misery inhibitors", to wit:

Massey Energy is the parent company of the four mines at the heart of the lawsuit -- Republic Energy Mine in Fayette County, the Camp Branch Mine in Logan County and the Black Castle Mine and Laxare East Mine, both of which are in Boone County. According to one of the company's lawyers, the four mines together are permitted to produce about 40 million tons of coal -- roughly one-quarter to one-third of the state's total production. The mines (4) employ 600 people in jobs that are projected to last as long as 15 years and pay average salaries of $65,000.

According to Mark Muchow, director of fiscal policy for the state's Department of Tax and Revenue, coal companies paid more than $400 million this fiscal year in taxes and fees.

Severance taxes make up the biggest chunk of that amount. Mining companies pay 5 percent of their gross receipts in severance taxes. Some money goes to the state, and some of it goes to counties and municipalities based on both a community's population and how much coal is produced there. This fiscal year, the state received $290 million in severance taxes, and local government agencies received $25 million.

Companies also have a 56-cents-per-ton tax to help pay off the debt in the workers' compensation system. When the debt is paid off, the tax will be eliminated. This year, that tax raised $81 million.

They pay a coal reclamation fee of 7 cents per ton. This year that fee generated $10 million.

They also have a coal mine inspection fee of 3 cents per ton, which helps pay for mine inspectors. That fee raises about $3 million a year.

The Department of Transportation also levies a 3-cents-per-ton coal-loading fee that helps pay for maintenance and repairs on coal-hauling roads. The fee also raises about $3 million.

http://www.statejournal.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=15198

West Virginia Office of Miners' Health, Safety and Training
WEST VIRGINIA COAL MINING FACTS

PRODUCTION & EMPLOYMENT
McDowell County has produced more coal than any other county in West Virginia.
The West Virginia Coal Industry provides about 40,000 direct jobs in WV, including miners, mine contractors, coal preparation plant employees and mine supply companies.
Underground mines in 2005 produced 98 million tons with 43 million tons from longwall mining.
Surface mines account for over 55 million tons of production each year.
In 2005 Surface mines produced 60 million tons with over 42 million from Mountain Top mining.
In 2005 West Virginia mines produced over 159 million tons.
West Virginia produces about 15 % of total coal production in the U.S.
West Virginia leads the nation in underground coal production.
West Virginia leads the nation in coal exports with over 50 million tons shipped to 23 countries.
West Virginia Coal accounts for about 50% of US coal exports.

WV COAL & THE ECONOMY

Taxes paid by the coal industry and by utility companies that make electricity using West Virginia coal account for two-thirds, or over 60% of business taxes paid in our state.
The coal industry pays approximately $70 million in property taxes annually.
The Coal Severance Tax adds approximately $214 million into West Virginia's economy.
Twenty-four (24) million dollars of coal severance taxes collected each year goes directly into the Infrastructure Bond Fund.
All 55 counties, even the non-coal producing counties receive Coal Severance Tax funds.
The coal industry payroll is nearly $2 billion per year.
Coal is responsible for more than $3.5 billion annually in the gross state product.

ELECTRICITY AND COAL

More than half of the nation's electricity is generated from coal.
In West Virginia 99% of the generated electricity comes from coal.
There are currently 14 coal fired electric generating facilities located in West Virginia.
Coal provides the majority of electric power in 32 states.

http://www.wvminesafety.org/wvcoalfacts.htm

Stephanie, all done comparing?

If so, did Ziggy's "social miseries" of a few ....... outweigh the $3.5 billion annual "misery inhibitors" provided to the many?

.

by Aaron Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:24 am

ziggy wrote:Don't you read the letters to the editor columns, Aaron? Hell, even the paid Friends of Coal staff can't keep up with the opposition.

Do you know how many letters of public comment go in on permit applications? Do you know what percentage of those are "for" and "against". The opposition to MTR is a hell of a lot more than one in ten.

You're opposition isn't to MTR, it's too coal. Thank God people like you are in the very small minority. You're the type of person that would want to stop making lemonade because it's harmful to lemons. Laughing

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