Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
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Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
By: Mark Tapscott
Editorial Page Editor
05/27/09 3:37 PM EDT
GM= "Government Motors"
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Furor-grows-over-partisan-car-dealer-closings-46261447.html
By: Mark Tapscott
Editorial Page Editor
05/27/09 3:37 PM EDT
GM= "Government Motors"
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Furor-grows-over-partisan-car-dealer-closings-46261447.html
Excellent post up by Nate Silver on Huffpo making the argument that nobody should be surprised that lots of the Chrysler dealers getting the axe are GOP contributors because car dealers as a group are overwhelmingly Republican. Says Silver:
"It shouldn't be any surprise, by the way, that car dealers tend to vote -- and donate -- Republican. They are usually male, they are usually older (you don't own an auto dealership in your 20s), and they have obvious reasons to be pro-business, pro-tax cut, anti-green energy and anti-labor. Car dealerships need quite a bit of space and will tend to be located in suburban or rural areas. I can't think of too many other occupations that are more natural fits for the Republican Party. Unfortunately, while we are still a nation of drivers, we are not a nation of dealers."
That's true, of course, but I'm not sure that it ends the discussion. In fact, it may even make the discussion of possible partisan considerations behind the closings even more relevant. Think of it this way: If 88 percent of all car dealers were Democratic contributors, rather than GOPers, how likely is it that the Obama folks would be delivering such an egregious economic blow to the group, a blow that put thousands of people out of work and deprives hundreds of Democratic donors of their means of making contributions?
More likely, the Obama White House would be doing everything possible to avoid closing Chrysler dealerships, especially since the argument for closure has nothing to do with whether any particular dealership is profitable, but whether it is one more than somebody thinks Chrysler or GM should have in order to spread sales like Toyota does it.
If you think I am kidding, let's do a quick review of recent automotive industry history. People in Detroit, the automotive media - and on Wall Street where White House car czar Steve Rattner made his fortune - have been debating for years about the Big Three's need to reduce their dealership count in order to become more like Toyota.
Remember in the late 1970s when Chysler almost went bankrupt the first time? And did you know all that kept Ford afloat in 1980 was its foreign sales? But despite those jolts, Detroit still didn't resolve the issues presented by serious foreign competition. Instead of directly confronting the main source of their problem - over-priced labor that put the Big Three at a major disadvantage on costs - Big Three executives tried other approaches to manage what was sometimes called the "over-capacity problem."
Too many dealerships was only a minor part of the over-capacity problem, which at its most fundamental level consisted of having too many factories making far more vehicles than consumers wanted to buy. The ideas was that if they cut back production capacity to match sales, everything would be fine.
That thinking obscured the fundamental problem - too few sales of vehicles that were too costly to build and that increasingly consumers rejected. Detroit has still not solved this problem, although GM got it half right in the last decade by revamping its product line and substantially upgrading its assembly and reliability scores. But GM still hasn't been able to penetrate the UAW's lock on production costs. Ditto Chrysler, which suffers the additional fact of a product line that is in most respects at best merely adequate.
The Japanese automaker's U.S. sales strategy has long focused on having fewer dealers selling more cars per dealership than any of the Big Three. The thinking is that each dealer will make more money and be financially stronger as a result. The traditional Detroit strategy before Toyota came on the scene was the opposite - the more opportunities potential customers have to buy our products, the more likey they are to buy it.
But Toyota's strategy would be worthless if its products weren't sought after by consumers. Dealer count is a secondary issue, product appeal is the key to sales, which are the key to manufacturer profitability.
The tale is told in the numbers, as usual. Check out this excellent analysis by Bloomberg's Katie Merx and Keith Naughton on the math behind the dealer closings. Here's the key passage:
"Average new-auto revenue was $14.3 million for GM dealers and $12.8 million for Chrysler last year, compared with $40.9 million for Toyota, based on data from auto-research company Edmunds.com. Dealers also make money on used vehicles, parts and service.
"Each GM store averaged 444 new-auto sales, while Chrysler had 405, according to consulting firm Grant Thornton. Ford Motor Co. was similar, at 483. Japan’s three biggest automakers dwarfed those totals, with 1,200 for Toyota, 1,150 for Honda and 764 for Nissan Motor Co., Grant Thornton found.
"Shrinking GM’s dealer ranks to about 3,600 would push the automaker’s retailers to an annual average of 750 sales, said Paul Melville, a Grant Thornton auto-retailing analyst in Southfield, Michigan.
"'It’s heading in the right direction, but it’s still only 65 percent of where Toyota is,' Melville said. 'They’ll still have a lot of low-volume stores.'"
So, closing dealerships isn't what will restore Chrysler or GM to profitability. Which raises an interesting question for the White House: If getting Chrysler and GM back to profitability is the goal, why force any dealership to close?
Evidence appears to be mounting that the Obama administration has systematically targeted for closing Chrysler dealers who contributed to Repubicans. What started earlier this week as mainly a rumbling on the Right side of the Blogosphere has gathered some steam today with revelations that among the dealers being shut down are a GOP congressman and closing of competitors to a dealership chain partly owned by former Clinton White House chief of staff Mack McLarty.
The basic issue raised here is this: How do we account for the fact millions of dollars were contributed to GOP candidates by Chrysler who are being closed by the government, but only one has been found so far that is being closed that contributed to the Obama campaign in 2008?
Keli- Number of posts : 3608
Age : 73
Location : Zarr Chasm, WV--between Flotsam and Belch on the Cheat River
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
[b]GIVE ME A BREAK! LOL
Hacker- Number of posts : 105
Location : Chesapeake, Va
Registration date : 2009-02-17
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
Am I to take it that you don't see a connection Hacker?
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
Age : 58
Location : Putnam County for now
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
GM will be filing for bankruptcy Monday. The American auto industry in this country has just died.
You think they are gonna' nit-pick who is Repug or Democrat to close which dealership? That's just plain stupid.
Thousands of people have and will lose their jobs. , plants will close in a lot of states.
Sad!
You think they are gonna' nit-pick who is Repug or Democrat to close which dealership? That's just plain stupid.
Thousands of people have and will lose their jobs. , plants will close in a lot of states.
Sad!
Hacker- Number of posts : 105
Location : Chesapeake, Va
Registration date : 2009-02-17
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
I heard a working stiff say that GM had pitched in during WWII and Iraq I and it was unpatriotic to allow it to die. I think (1) GM was well-compensated for its part in the war effort and (2) bankruptcy does not equal death. And, yes, there will be a huge job loss in the closing of some dealers but that pales compared to the shellacking that parts manufacturers are going to take.
You may not care that this disproportionately hurts the republican dealers. You certainly squeal when you think anybody maligns the UAW. The dealers have less to do with this than the UAW. I think the pain should be proportioned equally.
You may not care that this disproportionately hurts the republican dealers. You certainly squeal when you think anybody maligns the UAW. The dealers have less to do with this than the UAW. I think the pain should be proportioned equally.
ohio county- Moderator
- Number of posts : 3207
Location : Wheeling
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
Just because Rush Limpbaugh (bounce-bounce) said it dosent make it so.
I feel bad for the dealers., Repug's or Dem's. Damn, I thought this was the UNITED States... Who is going to rejoice at any plant, dealership, families losing thier homes, jobs lost?
If you are speaking of the UAW renegotiating the contract., we are taking losses.
Been retired for 18 years. I would presume you wouldnt "squeal" if you thought you may lose your pension?
Source: http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/29/autos/uaw_changes/index.htm?postversion=2009052905
Autoworkers swallow a bitter pill
As union workers are forced to make big sacrifices, a tough job that used to promise security and the American dream becomes a lot less appealing.
Union Concessions
Before: $28 base pay
Now: $14 base pay
Retirement: Before; Pension plan, health care
Now: Employees contribute to "Cash balance plan"
Health care: Healthcare covered through retirement
Now: More restrictions, coppays, no retirement coverage
Job security: before: Indefinite job banks
now: Limited time pay protection
I feel bad for the dealers., Repug's or Dem's. Damn, I thought this was the UNITED States... Who is going to rejoice at any plant, dealership, families losing thier homes, jobs lost?
If you are speaking of the UAW renegotiating the contract., we are taking losses.
Been retired for 18 years. I would presume you wouldnt "squeal" if you thought you may lose your pension?
Source: http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/29/autos/uaw_changes/index.htm?postversion=2009052905
Autoworkers swallow a bitter pill
As union workers are forced to make big sacrifices, a tough job that used to promise security and the American dream becomes a lot less appealing.
Union Concessions
Before: $28 base pay
Now: $14 base pay
Retirement: Before; Pension plan, health care
Now: Employees contribute to "Cash balance plan"
Health care: Healthcare covered through retirement
Now: More restrictions, coppays, no retirement coverage
Job security: before: Indefinite job banks
now: Limited time pay protection
Hacker- Number of posts : 105
Location : Chesapeake, Va
Registration date : 2009-02-17
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
As my wife likes to say,
.
You all sucked for it,
now swallow it.
now swallow it.
.
SamCogar- Number of posts : 6238
Location : Burnsville, WV
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
Please dont yell, hurts my ears.
Could we have a debate without getting nasty, please?
Could we have a debate without getting nasty, please?
Hacker- Number of posts : 105
Location : Chesapeake, Va
Registration date : 2009-02-17
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
An unskilled high school graduate does not deserve $28.00 an hour to do a repetitive task. There is no debate about that.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
Age : 58
Location : Putnam County for now
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
Would you prefer they make slave wages? Maybe 6 bucks an hour, no benefits.
My dad worked in Flint in '37 when conditions in the factories were horrible. Thanks to him and others, these high school graduates have a chance to have a decent life.
I was in skilled trades, 4 years apprentice + college.
My dad worked in Flint in '37 when conditions in the factories were horrible. Thanks to him and others, these high school graduates have a chance to have a decent life.
I was in skilled trades, 4 years apprentice + college.
Hacker- Number of posts : 105
Location : Chesapeake, Va
Registration date : 2009-02-17
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
Hacker, yes, I think we can have a debate without getting all up in each other's faces.
I have no idea what Rush Limbaugh said about the UAW, their pensions, or the affected dealers. I only read the link that was posted. What was not said in that link was that, yes, many of the dealers who were being closed were republicans. But guess what? The proportion of republicans is the same among the dealers who get to remain open. The criterion isn't partisan politics, it is sales numbers.
I saw this morning that the UAW voted to take the concessions. That was wise. I don't see how they could have done anything else. I'd be willing to bet their pensions are still better than mine.
I have no idea what Rush Limbaugh said about the UAW, their pensions, or the affected dealers. I only read the link that was posted. What was not said in that link was that, yes, many of the dealers who were being closed were republicans. But guess what? The proportion of republicans is the same among the dealers who get to remain open. The criterion isn't partisan politics, it is sales numbers.
I saw this morning that the UAW voted to take the concessions. That was wise. I don't see how they could have done anything else. I'd be willing to bet their pensions are still better than mine.
ohio county- Moderator
- Number of posts : 3207
Location : Wheeling
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
$6.00 an hour would be perfectly fine with me if they had some sort of production bonus to up their wages to an acceptable rate of the $12 to $15 an hour range for UNSKILLED labor.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
Age : 58
Location : Putnam County for now
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
I dont know what their pensions are now. I couldnt live on my pension alone without social security, but, I retired 18 years ago, as I mentioned before and cost of living has risen a great deal since then. Certainly not complaining, grateful to have it.
Hacker- Number of posts : 105
Location : Chesapeake, Va
Registration date : 2009-02-17
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
Aaron; Production bonus, do you mean speed up the assembly line?
Just wondering: acceptable rate? To match the Japanese auto makers?
Just wondering: acceptable rate? To match the Japanese auto makers?
Hacker- Number of posts : 105
Location : Chesapeake, Va
Registration date : 2009-02-17
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
Why shouldn't production workers be paid, at least partially, on what they produce?
And not to put them in line with other American manufactured automobiles (regardless of where their corporate headquarters is) but to put UNSKILLED workers in line with other UNSKILLED manufacturing employees.
Or do you think an UNSKILLED autoworker should make more money then an UNSKILLED iron worker or UNSKILLED construction employee? And if so, why?
And not to put them in line with other American manufactured automobiles (regardless of where their corporate headquarters is) but to put UNSKILLED workers in line with other UNSKILLED manufacturing employees.
Or do you think an UNSKILLED autoworker should make more money then an UNSKILLED iron worker or UNSKILLED construction employee? And if so, why?
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
Age : 58
Location : Putnam County for now
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
Hi Aaron: It just dosent work that way when there is a production line.
If is sped up, the employees would literally have to run to keep up.
I think the iron workers & construction workers belong to unions. I have no idea what their pay scale is, but I would hope it is acceptable.
If is sped up, the employees would literally have to run to keep up.
I think the iron workers & construction workers belong to unions. I have no idea what their pay scale is, but I would hope it is acceptable.
Hacker- Number of posts : 105
Location : Chesapeake, Va
Registration date : 2009-02-17
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
Aaron wrote:An unskilled high school graduate does not deserve $28.00 an hour to do a repetitive task. There is no debate about that.
HA, you should see what those HSG's who learned the basics of welding make as a Boilermaker Card carrier.
I know a couple that are right now working on the re-fit of that Power Plant over at Shinnston that are making way, way more than $2K/week, but they might be working 7-10's or 7-12's.
But no matter where they work, they get the BIG BUCKS/hour.
And ps, nothing compares with those IBEW'ers.
.
SamCogar- Number of posts : 6238
Location : Burnsville, WV
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
Hacker wrote:Hi Aaron: It just dosent work that way when there is a production line.
If is sped up, the employees would literally have to run to keep up.
I think the iron workers & construction workers belong to unions. I have no idea what their pay scale is, but I would hope it is acceptable.
Then $12 to $14 is perfectly acceptable for an unskilled worker.
And not all construstion or iron workers are union. But even if they are, unskilled labors (grunts) don't make $34.00 an hour. I've got a good friend that has 25 years as a pipe fitter and is working at Amos (not sure if it's union or non) and he's making $32.00 an hour.
So are you telling me that a 25 year skilled pipe fitter is worth only $8.00 more per hour then an unskilled auto worker
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
Age : 58
Location : Putnam County for now
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
SamCogar wrote:Aaron wrote:An unskilled high school graduate does not deserve $28.00 an hour to do a repetitive task. There is no debate about that.
HA, you should see what those HSG's who learned the basics of welding make as a Boilermaker Card carrier.
I know a couple that are right now working on the re-fit of that Power Plant over at Shinnston that are making way, way more than $2K/week, but they might be working 7-10's or 7-12's.
But no matter where they work, they get the BIG BUCKS/hour.
And ps, nothing compares with those IBEW'ers.
.
At Amos, they're starting off around $15.00 Sammy. They just work 90 hours a week for weeks at a time.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
Age : 58
Location : Putnam County for now
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
HI y'all,
I think the problem lies in what the best amount of money to pay is to start at a relatively unskilled, but boring and labor intensive, position.
14 bucks strikes me as entirely fair at hourly rate and 40 hours per week.. What do you all think?
I think the problem lies in what the best amount of money to pay is to start at a relatively unskilled, but boring and labor intensive, position.
14 bucks strikes me as entirely fair at hourly rate and 40 hours per week.. What do you all think?
SheikBen- Moderator
- Number of posts : 3445
Age : 48
Location : The Soviet Socialist Republic of Illinois
Registration date : 2008-01-02
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
I think that's more the fair for unskilled, repetitive labor.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
Age : 58
Location : Putnam County for now
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
If we are going to pre-empt the market and set hourly wages for skilled crafts then we ought to entertain the notion of setting limits on executive pay and perks. Interfering with the market is interfering with the market...
ohio county- Moderator
- Number of posts : 3207
Location : Wheeling
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
Aaron wrote: So are you telling me that a 25 year skilled pipe fitter is worth only $8.00 more per hour then an unskilled auto worker
Aaron, are all 25 year skilled School Teachers worth $35K - $40K per 200 days.
SamCogar- Number of posts : 6238
Location : Burnsville, WV
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
ohio county wrote:If we are going to pre-empt the market and set hourly wages for skilled crafts then we ought to entertain the notion of setting limits on executive pay and perks. Interfering with the market is interfering with the market...
Are they turning Socialist on us or what?
Wages should be set by "supply and demand".
That's why Government and Unions have got things screwed up.
.
SamCogar- Number of posts : 6238
Location : Burnsville, WV
Registration date : 2007-12-28
Re: Furor grows over partisan car dealer closings
SamCogar wrote:Aaron wrote: So are you telling me that a 25 year skilled pipe fitter is worth only $8.00 more per hour then an unskilled auto worker
Aaron, are all 25 year skilled School Teachers worth $35K - $40K per 200 days.
No.
But more so then an unskilled kid out of high school is in putting bolts on a stud or aligning a fender over and over is worth $28.00 an hour.
Aaron- Number of posts : 9841
Age : 58
Location : Putnam County for now
Registration date : 2007-12-28
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