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Deja Duke--all over again.

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Post by Keli Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:52 pm

Has the Prez "Wilfonged" Officer Crowley?


Last edited by Keli on Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Keli Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:19 pm

Obama had a personal bias and did not know the facts--in Healthcare or Gatesgate!
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Post by ziggy Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:49 pm

Almost everyone has a personal bias about almost everything.

So what your point?
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Post by Aaron Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:02 am

Who pissed in your Wheaties while you were away Ziggy?
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Post by Stephanie Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:16 am

Ziggy,

I get the impression that you don't think racist black Americans should be held accountable for their racism. Barack Obama has repeatedly proven himself a racist and white Americans are somehow expected to just look the other way. It's somehow impolite to point out the racism of blacks. Do you subscribe to the notion that only whites can be racist or do you think blacks are entitled to abuse and villify whites because of past abuses against their people?

The problem with the Cambridge PD and Officer Crowley has nothing to do with race and everthing to do with out of control law enforcement. Had a white man refused to cooperate with police and been arrested nobody would have heard about it outside of his circle of friends and associates, but a black man cries racism and it's international news.

You want to read about a racially motivated crime, read this story.

Akron police investigate teen mob attack on family

Akron police say they aren't ready to call it a hate crime or a gang initiation.

But to Marty Marshall, his wife and two kids, it seems pretty clear.

It came after a family night of celebrating America and freedom with a fireworks show at Firestone Stadium. Marshall, his family and two friends were gathered outside a friend's home in South Akron.

Out of nowhere, the six were attacked by dozens of teenage boys, who shouted ''This is our world'' and ''This is a black world'' as they confronted Marshall and his family.

The Marshalls, who are white, say the crowd of teens who attacked them and two friends June 27 on Girard Street numbered close to 50. The teens were all black.

''This was almost like being a terrorist act,'' Marshall said. ''And we allow this to go on in our neighborhoods?''

They said it started when one teen, without any words or warning, blindsided and assaulted Marshall's friend as he stood outside with the others.

When Marshall, 39, jumped in, he found himself being attacked by the growing group of teens.

His daughter, Rachel, 15, who weighs about 90 pounds, tried to come to his rescue. The teens pushed her to the ground.

His wife, Yvonne, pushed their son, Donald, 14, into bushes to keep him protected.

''My thing is,'' Marshall said, ''I didn't want this, but I was in fear for my wife, my kids and my friends. I felt I had to stay out there to protect them, because those guys were just jumping, swinging fists and everything.

''I'm lucky. They didn't break my ribs or bruise my ribs. I thank God, they concentrated on my thick head because I do have one. They were trying to take my head off my spine, basically.''

After several minutes of punches and kicks, the attack ended and the group ran off. The Marshalls' two adult male friends were not seriously hurt.

''I don't think I thought at that moment when I tried to jump in,'' Rachel Marshall said. ''But when I was laying on the ground, I was just scared.''

Marshall was the most seriously injured. He suffered a concussion and multiple bruises to his head and eye. He said he spent five nights in the critical care unit at Akron General Medical Center.

The construction worker said he now fears for his family's safety, and the thousands of dollars in medical bills he faces without insurance.

''I knew I was going to get beat, but not as bad as I did,'' Marshall said. ''But I did it to protect my family. I didn't have a choice. There was no need for this. We should be all getting along. But to me, it seems to be racist.''

Akron police are investigating. Right now, the case is not being classified as a racial hate crime. There were no other reports of victims assaulted by the group that night.

The department's gang unit is involved in the investigation, police said.

''We don't know if it's a known gang, or just a group of kids,'' police Lt. Rick Edwards said.

The Marshalls say they fear retaliation at home or when they go outside. They are considering arming themselves, but they're concerned about the possible problems that come with guns.

For now, they are hoping police can bring them suspects. They believe they can identify several of the attackers.

''This makes you think about your freedom,'' Marshall
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Post by ziggy Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:21 am

Stephanie wrote:Ziggy,

I get the impression that you don't think racist black Americans should be held accountable for their racism. Barack Obama has repeatedly proven himself a racist and white Americans are somehow expected to just look the other way.

And yet you say that Obama represents you? Again, he does not represent me.
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Post by Stephanie Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:25 am

I don't want him to represent me. I didn't vote for him, but he is the face and voice of the American people. I'm an American and until his term expires, or he is impeached, or dies, he will continue to represent me. I don't have to like it.
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Post by ziggy Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:34 am

Stephanie wrote:Do you subscribe to the notion that only whites can be racist or do you think blacks are entitled to abuse and villify whites because of past abuses against their people?

It is not a matter of being "entitled". It is a matter of fact that violence begets violence from one generation to another. White America by and large excused Jim Crow laws and the violence of the KKK for 100 years. That excusing is not lost on succeeding generations of Americans.

The problem with the Cambridge PD and Officer Crowley has nothing to do with race and everthing to do with out of control law enforcement. Had a white man refused to cooperate with police and been arrested nobody would have heard about it outside of his circle of friends and associates, but a black man cries racism and it's international news.

Had a white man "refused to cooperate" with a police officer- in his own home- he would have been ignored.

And so what's wrong with it being international news? But you are half right. Had Gates been just another poor black guy in Harlem victimized by out of control cops, we would not even have heard about it.
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Post by ziggy Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:39 am

Stephanie wrote:I don't want him to represent me. I didn't vote for him, but he is the face and voice of the American people. I'm an American and until his term expires, or he is impeached, or dies, he will continue to represent me. I don't have to like it.

You not only don't have to like it, you don't have to accept it. Your simple statement that you do not recognize Obama as representing you puts the whole world on notice that he doesn't represent you. So why are you so complicit in putting a mere man on a pedestal? President or homeless pauper, he is just another guy. He represents no one but himself. And if he claims to represent me, he is being a jackass. And if you think he represents me (or you) then you are being incredibly naive.
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Post by Aaron Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:45 am

Ziggy's already excused and justified the actions of the young black men in Akron. It's the white man's fault, don't you know Stephanie?
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Post by sodbuster Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:59 am

Did anyone hear how the beer party at the WH worked out?

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Post by SamCogar Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:18 am

ziggy wrote: It is not a matter of being "entitled". It is a matter of fact that violence begets violence from one generation to another.

So, Zigster, what you are claiming is that ..... all the violence currently occuring in America today ........ is all rooted in the American Revolution of the 1770's, ...... RIGHT.


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Post by Keli Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:01 am

ziggy wrote:Almost everyone has a personal bias about almost everything.

So what your point?

What is your bias(es), Zig?
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Post by Keli Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:03 am

sodbuster wrote:Did anyone hear how the beer party at the WH worked out?

The policeman sat down with two men who called him a racist and stupid. So, he called them a name, didn't apologize and then invited them for donuts and coffee to clear the air.
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Post by Stephanie Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:11 am

ziggy wrote:

It is not a matter of being "entitled". It is a matter of fact that violence begets violence from one generation to another. White America by and large excused Jim Crow laws and the violence of the KKK for 100 years. That excusing is not lost on succeeding generations of Americans.
If your theory is correct you and the other posters on this message board had better watch out. Men in this country by and large ignored and excused the physical, sexual, emotional, and economic abuse of women for 400 years. You'd better watch your back, Ziggy.

Had a white man "refused to cooperate" with a police officer- in his own home- he would have been ignored.

And so what's wrong with it being international news? But you are half right. Had Gates been just another poor black guy in Harlem victimized by out of control cops, we would not even have heard about it.

It never makes international news when police officers, taser, beat, humilate, and/or rape white Americans unless they have money and power. A cop tasered a grandmother for refusing to sign a ticket. Police severely beat a teenaged girl in their custody because she kicked her shoes off, tasered pregnant women, a group of officers viciously assaulted a man for asking a question, and a gang of male and female cops forcibly strip searched a female crime victim subsequently leaving her naked in a cell for hours but none of these events made headlines for weeks in newspapers and on news programs and there were no magazine cover stories. No President was asked to comment on the videos of their abuses at the hands of criminals with badges. This isn't a race issue but Gates & Obama sure want to make it one and you seem content to let them.
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Post by ziggy Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:01 pm

If your theory is correct you and the other posters on this message board had better watch out. Men in this country by and large ignored and excused the physical, sexual, emotional, and economic abuse of women for 400 years. You'd better watch your back, Ziggy.

Damn right! And more and more women are saying they won't take it any more and fighting back. Sometimes they go to prison for it. But sometimes juries understand that a wife who kills her husband was a victim of his violence for too mnay years. And there, too, in domestic relations, violence begets violence- from one generation to the next, ad nauseum.

The solution is not to blame the victims who snapped and said enough is too much. The solution is to break the cycle.

But a nation whose government that has spent most of its history either at war or preparing to make war against its both internal and foreign alleged enemies is likely not an effective mentor for non-violence.

And so the circle goes 'round and 'round.
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Post by ziggy Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:20 pm

Stephanie wrote:This isn't a race issue but Gates & Obama sure want to make it one and you seem content to let them.

I believe it is a race issue. Had Gates been white, as soon as the cop realized that it was his own house, that would have been the end of it- there would have been no demand for further "cooperation". That Gates chose to verbalize his feelings of being a victim of racism in his own home should have been of no consequence to the cop.
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Post by ziggy Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:26 pm

Keli wrote:
ziggy wrote:Almost everyone has a personal bias about almost everything.

So what your point?

What is your bias(es), Zig?

There are too many of them to enumerate, Keli.

And besides, you probably recognize some of my biases better than I do anyway.

But I'll start with admitting biases against supernatural religions, and for science and reason; and biases for social justice, and against un-reasoned bigotry.
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Post by Aaron Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:11 pm

ziggy wrote:
Keli wrote:
ziggy wrote:Almost everyone has a personal bias about almost everything.

So what your point?

What is your bias(es), Zig?

There are too many of them to enumerate, Keli.

And besides, you probably recognize some of my biases better than I do anyway.

But I'll start with admitting biases against supernatural religions, and for science and reason; and biases for social justice, and against un-reasoned bigotry.

I'll throw out the first one.

He's a Marxist and favors all thing Marxism.
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Post by Stephanie Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:03 am

ziggy wrote:
If your theory is correct you and the other posters on this message board had better watch out. Men in this country by and large ignored and excused the physical, sexual, emotional, and economic abuse of women for 400 years. You'd better watch your back, Ziggy.

Damn right! And more and more women are saying they won't take it any more and fighting back. Sometimes they go to prison for it. But sometimes juries understand that a wife who kills her husband was a victim of his violence for too mnay years. And there, too, in domestic relations, violence begets violence- from one generation to the next, ad nauseum.

The solution is not to blame the victims who snapped and said enough is too much. The solution is to break the cycle.

But a nation whose government that has spent most of its history either at war or preparing to make war against its both internal and foreign alleged enemies is likely not an effective mentor for non-violence.

And so the circle goes 'round and 'round.

Women who kill their abusers are doing so in self defense. Professor Gates wasn't defending himself and that gang of black teens who viciously assaulted that family in Akron last month weren't defendign themselves. Gates is a racist and he wants to stir up racial discontent in this country, as do Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and a litany of other "leaders" of the black community. The same cannot be said about white Americans. We shun our racists.
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Post by ziggy Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:49 pm

Professor Gates wasn't defending himself ....................

He believed that he was, and I believe that he was. He was in his own home. If he wanted to defend himself by verbalizing his complaint about his perceptions of being harrassed because of his race and gender, in his own home, he had a right to do that. Again, once he had established that he was in his own home he had no further duty to "cooperate" with the officer by keeping his mouth shut about what he believed was happening to him.

And in arresting and taking Gates forthwith from his home, and under ambiguous and dubious "disorderly conduct" charges, the officer confirmed exactly what Gates was complaining about- that black men in America face a different system of "justice" than do whites.
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Post by ziggy Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:47 pm

Women who kill their abusers are doing so in self defense. Professor Gates wasn't defending himself and that gang of black teens who viciously assaulted that family in Akron last month weren't defendign themselves. Gates is a racist and he wants to stir up racial discontent in this country, as do Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and a litany of other "leaders" of the black community. The same cannot be said about white Americans. We shun our racists.

No. More typically white Americans simply refuse to acknowledge our racists.
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Post by Aaron Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:23 pm

The cops had reason to be at the house as a 911 call was made. After that, it's he said/he said. The question is who has more credibility and to be honest, I don't think either one of them has very much.

I do find it fascinating that one can automatically assume it's racism because the victim is black but I guess its an easy conclusion to jump to when you have your mind made up before you consider the facts. Seems you've got something in common with our President other then your Marxist views Ziggy.
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Post by Stephanie Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:36 am

No. More typically white Americans simply refuse to acknowledge our racists.

Even if you're correct, white Americans don't revere and celebrate their racists and provide them with a platform to spew their hatred, which is what has gone on in the case of Mr. Gates.
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Post by ziggy Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:56 am

Stephanie wrote:
No. More typically white Americans simply refuse to acknowledge our racists.

Even if you're correct, white Americans don't revere and celebrate their racists and provide them with a platform to spew their hatred, which is what has gone on in the case of Mr. Gates.

The cop was white. By arresting Gates he, the cop, provided the "platform" for subsequent claims of racism. He should have just let Gates rave on to his heart's content about being a victim of racism rather than confirm it by arresting him. But of course, once again, we see that when one's only tool is a hammer, one looks at every problem as a nail. Cops should have more tools and social skills at their disposal than simply the power to recklessly arrest "uncooperative" people in their own homes.
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