Deja Duke--all over again.

ziggy wrote:
The cop was white. By arresting Gates he, the cop, provided the "platform" for subsequent claims of racism.

It never dawned on me until just now the potentially real reason you are and have been siding on the "side" that you have been all these years.



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So then Sam, once Gates' residency at that location had been establish, what didn't the cop just go on about his other business and leave Gates the hell alone?

If this was indeed racism as is stated here, then why did Barrack Obama attempt to 'cool' off the debate with is beer summit?

Although the principals met, they did so out of earshot of the media, thus the debate was basically squelched.

It just seems logical to me that if this were truly a case of racism that those being discriminated against would want a public debate instead of a private meeting.

What am I missing?

With mugs of beer and more-carefully chosen words, President Obama tried to push himself and the nation beyond an uproar over race, chatting in the White House Rose Garden on Thursday with the black professor and the white police officer whose dispute had ignited a fierce, consuming debate.


source

If this was indeed racism as is stated here, then why did Barrack Obama attempt to 'cool' off the debate with is beer summit?

Although the principals met, they did so out of earshot of the media, thus the debate was basically squelched.

It just seems logical to me that if this were truly a case of racism that those being discriminated against would want a public debate instead of a private meeting.

So do you think the public discussion about racist implications in this case should continue? I'm OK with that. As the little man said, "Bring it on".

But somehow I thought that the complaint was that it was being all blown up as a racist event when it really wasn't. Silly me. I should know that having it both ways is par for the course.

What am I missing?

Nothing much- only that Obama is doing what politicians all over do- trying to turn a relatively small matter into a "federal case" for the glory of the politician.

The cops had reason to be at the house as a 911 call was made. After that, it's he said/he said. The question is who has more credibility and to be honest, I don't think either one of them has very much.

Gates was at his own home. He had already established that with the officer- before he was arrested. The officer does not claim otherwise. That he had established that he was in his own home is all the credibility he needed in this case. And he can do what he damn well pleases, and say what he damn well pleases, and be as "un-cooperative" as he damn well pleases in his own home- as long as he does not violate the law.

It is the cop who arrested him that needs credibility, to support that arrest- or any other arrest.

ziggy wrote:So then Sam, once Gates' residency at that location had been establish, what didn't the cop just go on about his other business and leave Gates the hell alone?

Zig, why ask me, ..... ask your buddy Shermmy for an expert opinion on what he use to do when a potential criminal became belligerent and offensively demeaning to an Officer .... after the fact?

I don't believe there are very many Officers that will tolerate that crap ..... either before or after an "event" is determined.

Such HORSESHIDT is what instigates riots and civil unrest.

And that is likely what would have happened if said event had occurred "out on the street" in front of a crowd.

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I'm not disputing that the cop likely went too far. That happens every day with all races of people. Hence my doubting his credibility.

And like it or not, being in your own home does not give you the right to be verbally abusive or offensive with someone else, especially a police officer who is responding to a 911 call and as such, is already on heightened emotions.

What I don't agree with is that is specifically about race and were the professor White, this wouldn’t have happened. You made that claim hence you have the burden of proving it. Until you do, I'm not buying it.

The way I see it, were this truly about race as you claim, then Gates wouldn't have so easily agreed to stifle the conversation over a beer with the ‘racist cop’ who allegedly discriminated against him in the manner you claim.

SamCogar wrote:

ziggy wrote:So then Sam, once Gates' residency at that location had been establish, what didn't the cop just go on about his other business and leave Gates the hell alone?

Zig, why ask me, ..... ask your buddy Shermmy for an expert opinion on what he use to do when a potential criminal became belligerent and offensively demeaning to an Officer .... after the fact?

I don't believe there are very many Officers that will tolerate that crap ..... either before or after an "event" is determined.

Such HORSESHIDT is what instigates riots and civil unrest.

And that is likely what would have happened if said event had occurred "out on the street" in front of a crowd.

OK. And if it had happened "out on the street" in front of a crowd, I would agree that orderly conduct should prevail, and that "disorderly conduct" charges against disorderly persons might well be in order.

But it DID NOT happen out on the street in front of a crowd. It was in Gates own home- just between Gates and the officer. There was no crowd to incite to riot. The officer had nothing at stake at that point other than his own pride and ego. And in Gates' own home- that is trumped by Gates own pride and ego- again, in his own home. The officer should have set aside his own pride and ego and gone about his other business. That is what police are, or should be, trained to do- make good judgements about when an arrest is about law and public order, and not about exercising his own pride and ego.

Zigg, why ask me, .....

I ask you because you chose to participate in the discussion.

ask your buddy Shermmy for an expert opinion on what he use to do when a potential criminal became belligerent and offensively demeaning to an Officer .... after the fact?

I don't need to ask Sherm. I've known Sherm far better than you do, and for far longer than you have- years before he was cop.

ziggy wrote:

The cops had reason to be at the house as a 911 call was made. After that, it's he said/he said. The question is who has more credibility and to be honest, I don't think either one of them has very much.

Gates was at his own home. He had already established that with the officer- before he was arrested. The officer does not claim otherwise. That he had established that he was in his own home is all the credibility he needed in this case. And he can do what he damn well pleases, and say what he damn well pleases, and be as "un-cooperative" as he damn well pleases in his own home- as long as he does not violate the law.

It is the cop who arrested him that needs credibility, to support that arrest- or any other arrest.

As usual, you are only spouting your "racist shidt" ...... which has no basis in the Rule of Law.

Under the Rule of Law ..... a "potential crime scene" is considered a "potential crime scene" and the Police have jurisdiction over it no matter who in hell it belongs too ...... and that jurisdiction is maintained until they "vacate the scene".

The same applies to scenes of "property fires" and to Public Highways at scenes of "vehicular accidents". The Fire Department Chief on the scene is the ruleing Authority and has jurisdiction over the "scene" and even on-scene Police Officers take orders from said.

And if you get belligerent with said Fire Chief he will have your ass arrested by a said Police Officer.

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And if you get belligerent with said Fire Chief he will have your ass arrested by a said Police Officer.

He might try to. And that is just what happened several years ago here.

He called a police officer to try to have me stop what I was doing at an accident scene. He said that he could, "have your ass put in jail".

Hearing us both out, the officer told the guy to shut up, and told me to carry on with what I was doing- clearing up the remains of a wrecked semi-truck.

ziggy wrote:

Zigg, why ask me, .....

I ask you because you chose to participate in the discussion.

ask your buddy Shermmy for an expert opinion on what he use to do when a potential criminal became belligerent and offensively demeaning to an Officer .... after the fact?

I don't need to ask Sherm. I've known Sherm far better than you do, and for far longer than you have- years before he was cop.

YADA, ..... YADA, ...... YADDAH .....

And you have known that dude (what was his real name, I forget) who screen name was "One Citizen" for just about the same length of time.

But oh racist one, what does either of those FACTS have to do with your idiotic statements in this String of posts?

Under the Rule of Law ..... a "potential crime scene" is considered a "potential crime scene" and the Police have jurisdiction over it no matter who in hell it belongs too ...... and that jurisdiction is maintained until they "vacate the scene".

And there does come a time to "vacate the scene"- especially when it becomes evident that no crime was committed. In the Gates case, the officer failed to realize when that time was.

ziggy wrote:

And if you get belligerent with said Fire Chief he will have your ass arrested by a said Police Officer.

He might try to. And that is just what happened several years ago here.

He called a police officer to try to have me stop what I was doing at an accident scene. He said that he could, "have your ass put in jail".

Hearing us both out, the officer told the guy to shut up, and told me to carry on with what I was doing- clearing up the remains of a wrecked semi-truck.

Was Shermmy that officer?

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SamCogar wrote:

ziggy wrote:

Zigg, why ask me, .....

I ask you because you chose to participate in the discussion.

ask your buddy Shermmy for an expert opinion on what he use to do when a potential criminal became belligerent and offensively demeaning to an Officer .... after the fact?

I don't need to ask Sherm. I've known Sherm far better than you do, and for far longer than you have- years before he was cop.

YADA, ..... YADA, ...... YADDAH .....

And you have known that dude (what was his real name, I forget) who screen name was "One Citizen" for just about the same length of time.

I still don't know for sure who "One Citizen" is. But if he is who I think he probably is, I have known him- but only casually- for maybe 5 or 6 years or so.

SamCogar wrote:

ziggy wrote:

And if you get belligerent with said Fire Chief he will have your ass arrested by a said Police Officer.

He might try to. And that is just what happened several years ago here.

He called a police officer to try to have me stop what I was doing at an accident scene. He said that he could, "have your ass put in jail".

Hearing us both out, the officer told the guy to shut up, and told me to carry on with what I was doing- clearing up the remains of a wrecked semi-truck.

Was Shermmy that officer?

.

No. That was about 10 years ago- several years after Sherm had retired.

ziggy wrote:
I still don't know for sure who "One Citizen" is. But if he is who I think he probably is, I have known him- but only casually- for maybe 5 or 6 years or so.

GIMME A BREAK

You stated you knew his father who was a Politicianand you knew One Citizen well enough to vouch for his creditability ..... and that was the reasons you were defending his actions.

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ziggy wrote:
No. That was about 10 years ago- several years after Sherm had retired.

Making up more crapolla, HUH?

Several years before 1998 ...... Shermmy wasn't old enough to retire from the SPs unless it was for a Disability.

Are you next going to tell us he was too disabled to be an SP ....... but was healthy enough to drive, load and unload those big 18-wheelers all of the US?

If so, I'll believe that.

SamCogar wrote:

ziggy wrote:
I still don't know for sure who "One Citizen" is. But if he is who I think he probably is, I have known him- but only casually- for maybe 5 or 6 years or so.

GIMME A BREAK

You stated you knew his father who was a Politicianand you knew One Citizen well enough to vouch for his creditability ..... and that was the reasons you were defending his actions.

.

If he is who I think he is, I knew his father about 35 years ago- yes.

But I certainly did not vouch for One Citizen's "credibility". I often have serious doubts about his credibility- which is too often only about on a par with yours.

For example, like you, he argued almost interminably that a public employee strike in West Virginia is "illegal"- the absence of any statute to that effect notwithstanding.

SamCogar wrote:

ziggy wrote:
No. That was about 10 years ago- several years after Sherm had retired.

Making up more crapolla, HUH?

Several years before 1998 ...... Shermmy wasn't old enough to retire from the SPs unless it was for a Disability.

Once again you do not know what the hell you are talking about. Sherm took regular retirement with WV SP almost 20 years ago, based on his years of service to that agency.

It's an issue of out of control law enforcement. That's it, beginning, middle and end of story.

Was the officer wrong to arrest Gates? I don't really know, we will never truly know for certain because what went on in that house is something only the two of them ever knew for sure and now I strongly suspect one, or maybe even both, of them don't know the truth any more because at least one of them has been distorting the truth since the moment the arrest occured.

Ziggy, your tale reminds me of something interesting that happened in little ole Hope Valley RI about a dozen years ago. Now I know many of you folks have this image of RI as being all big city but Hope Valley is a really nice little town.

There was an accident on the on ramp to 95....southbound as I recall, at the Hope Valley exit. A tractor-trailer had overturned and fuel was leaking from the rig. The Deputy Chief of Hope Valley's all volunteer fire department happened to be in the area, saw the accident, made sure the driver was alright and saw the diesel spilling on to the ground forming a river. This was right by a pond that is part of the huge aquafir thousands of people get their drinking water from so the Deputy Chief wnt to his car and grabbed a shovel and began digging a trench to divert the petroleum product out of the drinking supply.

Well that's all well and good until the RI state police show up on the scene a couple of minutes later. The tell him to stop what he's doing. He explains what he's doing and they order him to put down the shovel and get out of there. He reminds them who he is and they tell him to quit or they're going to arrest him.

The police barracks are practically across the street from this man's home and he's lived in that community all of his life and he has worked numerous fire and accident scenes with these cops and in some cases their fathers for years. They knew who he was and his fellow firefighters were arriving on the scene as this all took place and when he refused for a third time to stop protecting the drinkins supply they arrested him.

This is a white man the police knew. He was released immediately upon his arrival at the barracks with an apology from the CO where he returned to the accident scene and continued on with his duties. This was covered in the local press and so forth and he even got a phone call from RI's top cop but there was never any formal kind of apology or acknowledgement to the public the officers overstepped their authority although that is clearly what they had done.

Now it sounds to me as though this is a similar kind of situation. The cop overreacted, overstepped his bounds. Race has nothing to do with it. It's simply out of control law enforcement.

You can think that race has "nothing to do with it" if you want to. But that is not what the statistics tell us. For example, black men in America are far more likely to be subjected to "probable cause" searches than are white men. And we only have to look as far away as Charleston, or Montgomery, West Virginia to see law enforcement racial profiling in action.

It's an issue of out of control law enforcement. That's it, beginning, middle and end of story.

No, I doubt very seriously that it is the end of the story. Why not? Because cops will continue to single out black males disproportianetly for "probable cause" searches and dubious arrest charges.

ziggy wrote:And there does come a time to "vacate the scene"- especially when it becomes evident that no crime was committed. In the Gates case, the officer failed to realize when that time was.

HORSESHIDT, the Offiicer was in process of "vacating the scene" but Gates was following him spouting his racist accusations. And Gates would have followed him clear out "into the street" in hopes of attracting a "big crowd" ...... of supporters. And it is a proven fact, ...... its best not to try "cuffing" someone after the crowd joins in the fracus.

Zigster, you can think up more asinine excuses and BS than GNC has "vitamin supplement" pills.



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ziggy wrote:You can think that race has "nothing to do with it" if you want to. But that is not what the statistics tell us. For example, black men in America are far more likely to be subjected to "probable cause" searches than are white men. And we only have to look as far away as Charleston, or Montgomery, West Virginia to see law enforcement racial profiling in action.

How about showing us some of those statistics Ziggy understanding that statistically speaking, black men are more likely to commit a crime then a white man is.