Good news for Democrats and Progressives??

ziggy wrote:

Aaron wrote:

While there is no evidence of any direct threat, the FBI sent a bulletin to 18,000 law enforcement agencies across the country, out of an abundance of caution.

So what should they do Frank, nothing? Should the just ignore Al Qeada?

Man, we've been in Iraq for more than 5 years since the mission was declared accomplished. Do you mean to tell us that Al Qaeda is still out there rootin' around somewhere? And McCain said only yesterday that we are "winning" in Iraq. So is the theory that we have been fighting Al Qeada in Iraq so we don't have to fight them here full of holes?

Ziggy,

Did you think, on 9/11, that it would be seven years before another attack on US soil? If so, you were one of the very few.

SheikBen wrote:Ziggy,

Did you think, on 9/11, that it would be seven years before another attack on US soil? If so, you were one of the very few.

Well, according to the great and wise Christian fathers Robertson and Fallwell, 9/11 happened because of queers and abortionists. And since some of them are still around, maybe we're due for another hit.

Aaron wrote:Like it or not, the tide is turning. It is Iraqi Sunni's that are combating Al Qeada. It is the Shiite led Iraqi military that is combating the Mahdi Army in Sadr City and Basra. Those are giant steps but those with a vested interest in America NOT being successful in Iraq CAN'T see that. It doesn't serve their agenda.

What got us in Iraq and led to the displacement of civilians and increase of sucide bombers was a political agenda taking precedence OVER military decision makers. Had GWB followed the Powell Doctrine instead of listening to civilians, we wouldn't be where we are now.

That was criticized before but now that there are successes in Iraq, those with a vested interest want the United States to return that that type of decision making policies.

I think that would be a huge mistake that will lead to the United States being BACK in Iraq/Iran in 10 to 15 years. Do you really think that's a wise decision?

Be BACK in Iraq/Iran in 10 to 15 years?

Hell, there is little or no reason to believe that we'll not STILL BE THERE for 10 or 15 years or longer.

If things are going so well in Iraq, then why will be be there another ten years to a hundred years- depending on who is doing the estimating?

If the choice is be there in 10 to 15 years with some military presence or BE BACK in 10 to 15 years, any semi-smart military person the any logic or reason whatsoever will tell you we're better off to stay then to leave and give Iraq/Iran 10 to 15 years to build up their military.

We left Europe in 1918 and was back in 1942. We didn't leave in 1945 and we haven't fought a war in Europe since. To me the sane choice is easy.

Aaron wrote:If the choice is be there in 10 to 15 years with some military presence or BE BACK in 10 to 15 years, any semi-smart military person the any logic or reason whatsoever will tell you we're better off to stay then to leave and give Iraq/Iran 10 to 15 years to build up their military.

We left Europe in 1918 and was back in 1942. We didn't leave in 1945 and we haven't fought a war in Europe since. To me the sane choice is easy.

Aaron, make up my mind please! I thought you've been preaching the good word to us today about how the Iraqis are on our side. Why would do we need to fear them building up their military to use against us?

Stephanie wrote:

Aaron wrote:If the choice is be there in 10 to 15 years with some military presence or BE BACK in 10 to 15 years, any semi-smart military person the any logic or reason whatsoever will tell you we're better off to stay then to leave and give Iraq/Iran 10 to 15 years to build up their military.

We left Europe in 1918 and was back in 1942. We didn't leave in 1945 and we haven't fought a war in Europe since. To me the sane choice is easy.

Aaron, make up my mind please! I thought you've been preaching the good word to us today about how the Iraqis are on our side. Why would do we need to fear them building up their military to use against us?

If we just march out as you want, Shiite militants led by Moqtada al Sadr and his Mahdi army will allign themselves with Iran and take control or they'll go down trying like hell. The BIGGEST thing stopping them right now is the United States Military. Why do you think he wants us out so bad?

ziggy wrote:

SheikBen wrote:Ziggy,

Did you think, on 9/11, that it would be seven years before another attack on US soil? If so, you were one of the very few.

Well, according to the great and wise Christian fathers Robertson and Fallwell, 9/11 happened because of queers and abortionists. And since some of them are still around, maybe we're due for another hit.

I notice that you didn't answer my question.

Aaron said:

If we just march out as you want, Shiite militants led by Moqtada al Sadr and his Mahdi army will allign themselves with Iran and take control or they'll go down trying like hell. The BIGGEST thing stopping them right now is the United States Military. Why do you think he wants us out so bad?

Aaron,

You're big into the whole history thing. So I want you to answer a couple of questions for me. Actually, I want you to examine the facts, and then consider them a bit.

How many suicide bombings have there been in Iraq since US forces invaded? How many suicide bombings had there been in Iraq in the preceeding decade? Or two decades?

Now, let's look to another country. Since Reagan withdrew US forces from Syria, how many suicide bombings have there been in that nation?

Now, where did the 9/11 terrorists, you know.....the men who killed themselves in the process of killing Americans, what nations did they come from? Notice a pattern yet????

SheikBen wrote:

ziggy wrote:

SheikBen wrote:Ziggy,

Did you think, on 9/11, that it would be seven years before another attack on US soil? If so, you were one of the very few.

Well, according to the great and wise Christian fathers Robertson and Fallwell, 9/11 happened because of queers and abortionists. And since some of them are still around, maybe we're due for another hit.

I notice that you didn't answer my question.

Do you mean that Fallwell and Robertson didn't offer the correct answer?

Stephanie wrote:Aaron said:

If we just march out as you want, Shiite militants led by Moqtada al Sadr and his Mahdi army will allign themselves with Iran and take control or they'll go down trying like hell. The BIGGEST thing stopping them right now is the United States Military. Why do you think he wants us out so bad?

Aaron,

You're big into the whole history thing. So I want you to answer a couple of questions for me. Actually, I want you to examine the facts, and then consider them a bit.

How many suicide bombings have there been in Iraq since US forces invaded? How many suicide bombings had there been in Iraq in the preceeding decade? Or two decades?

Now, let's look to another country. Since Reagan withdrew US forces from Syria, how many suicide bombings have there been in that nation?

Now, where did the 9/11 terrorists, you know.....the men who killed themselves in the process of killing Americans, what nations did they come from? Notice a pattern yet????

Syria was very close to completing Nuclear technology last year. It wasn't the Atomic Energy Commission of the UN that stopped them but Israeli bombers and fighters.

Iran has been trying to develop Nuclear technology for decades.

Moqtada al Sadr is a radical following in his fathers footsteps, who was a radical only controlled by a very harsh dictator.

You look in the school yard and see a bully and what appears to be a troubled young teen and the bully frightens you to death while you feel sorry for the teen and want to help him with some counseling and love.

I see a bully, who once challenged will run to the mountains and only fight at night with sneak attacks and a maniacal cold blooded killer that will bide his time and try to appear normal, while the body count builds in his back yard.

I can deal with the bully. The cold blooded killer scares the hell out of me.

It's your contention that Shiite fundamentalist are less radical then Al Qaeda fundamentalist are?

Because mine is that the Shiite are much worse. Hezbollah has been laying a foundation for the destruction of Israel and those who support Israel for a very long time, well over 30 years that we know of. It was they that killed our Marines in Lebanon on 1982, only we didn’t know it because they didn’t put out a tape taking credit. They went in, murdered 242 Marines and walked out with out so much as a peep.

So while Sunni's have been content to go along to get along for the most part, Shiite have been laying the groundwork and winning the hearts and the minds of Muslims decades, striking when needed but biding their time.

They now control 3 countries, plus part of another and are working on a fourth, which if successful, will give them control of about 25% of the worlds readily available oil but that doesn't frighten you.

You believe they'll continue to sell the oil for money because that’s what everyone else would do. But they don't think like that. To them, the oil is nothing more then Allah's gift to them as a means to destroy Israel and nothing else.

They see themselves as the true bloodline back to Muhammad with one goal, a goal that is bigger then their own lives and they will stop at nothing until that goal is reached.

You said a couple of months ago you viewed Moqtada al Sadr as a pimple on the butt of humanity. I don't believe you could be more wrong. Our government had a chance to take him out in 2003 with orders to assassinate him. That plan was derailed by a major bombing (I can't remember if it was an embassy or a Mosque) that happened on the morning al Sadr was supposed to be taken out and American/Iraqi forces let him get away. That was the first time he fled to Iran. By the time he resurfaced, it was to late.

That was a mistake, I believe, akin to having Hitler in the cross hairs in the 20's and doing nothing.

Yes Stephanie, I'm big into the history thing. And I've studied a couple of facts. In 2003, I didn't know the difference between a Sunni or a Shiite. I thought Al Qaeda represented all Muslims. Then I started studying and reading and learned that the bully that you're so afraid, is just that, a bully. I realize that he’s a very well financed bully and that he's dangerous and needs to be paid attention to but in the end, that‘s about all he is, is a bully.

Not the cold blooded, maniacal killer, he on the other hand bothers me. I'm convinced the WORST thing we can do is leave Iraq, march out and give control another country to the cold blooded killer who only has one goal. And on top of that, give them financial means to complete that goal and then some, which he’s been striving towards for about 600 years. And once he has the means, I don't believe for a second that he will stop at Israel. I believe that he will then set his sights on the one he views as Israel’s enabler for the past 60 years.

History is the reason I think the way I do Stephanie. Hitler was making plans for the invasion of America as far back as 1928. FDR knew that, and he knew that the US couldn’t set back and allow Germany to gain the ground and the resources to fulfill that plan and that is why, when attacked by Japan, within days, he declared war on Germany and Italy as well as Japan. Yes, history is a wonderful teacher. You should try reading it sometime.

Aaron,

That was all very interesting. I'm sure we're all quite impressed. You didn't answer the questions though. I'll repost them:

How many suicide bombings have there been in Iraq since US forces invaded? How many suicide bombings had there been in Iraq in the preceeding decade? Or two decades?

Now, let's look to another country. Since Reagan withdrew US forces from Syria, how many suicide bombings have there been in that nation?

Now, where did the 9/11 terrorists, you know.....the men who killed themselves in the process of killing Americans, what nations did they come from? Notice a pattern yet????

Yes I did answer them. Just because you don't understand the difference between a Sunni and a Shiite doesn't mean I didn't answer them.

I don't recall us having troops in Syria. I think you meant Lebanon when Regan withdrew troops from Beirut after Hezbollah killed 242 Marines.

And yes I notice the patter. The sad part is, you don't.

Ooops, I did mean Lebanon. So what's the pattern, Aaron?

Stephanie wrote:Ooops, I did mean Lebanon. So what's the pattern, Aaron?

I have to run kids to school and go to a graduation thingy. I'll be back this afternoon.

Well, what Aaron doesn't want to admit is this:

There were no suicide bombings in Iraq prior to the US invasion. I think we've lost track of how many there have been since the invasion.

After Reagan withdrew US forces from Lebanon the suicide bombings stopped.

The terrorists who willingly died killing Americans on 9/11.......guess what? US troops stationed on their soil. It isn't Islam that breeds sucide bombers, it is US foreign policy and intervention.

ziggy wrote:

SheikBen wrote:

ziggy wrote:

SheikBen wrote:Ziggy,

Did you think, on 9/11, that it would be seven years before another attack on US soil? If so, you were one of the very few.

Well, according to the great and wise Christian fathers Robertson and Fallwell, 9/11 happened because of queers and abortionists. And since some of them are still around, maybe we're due for another hit.

I notice that you didn't answer my question.

Do you mean that Fallwell and Robertson didn't offer the correct answer?

Ziggy,

Why are you trying to change the subject (I will take your bait in a minute)? Did you, or did you not, expect another attack just after 9/11 within 7 years?

Now, I do believe that God judges sin and that the evil that men do can lead to disaster. I also believe in a Sovereign God who can prevent whatever He wants to, and as such, 9/11, hurricanes, tornadoes, famines, etc., are all deeds that could have been prevented. I do not think that all who suffer are themselves guilty of great sin; in fact, it is a regular occurrence that the relatively innocent die for the sins of the guilty (consider children being gunned down by gang fire).

So, if you want the "gotcha" answer, I'll give it to you. God could have prevented 9/11 but He did not. While I will not presume upon God's reasonings for not preventing that and a host of other disasters, I will say that we have been in a hurry to neglect Him, and should not be surprised if He decides to return the "favor".

Stephanie wrote:Well, what Aaron doesn't want to admit is this:

There were no suicide bombings in Iraq prior to the US invasion. I think we've lost track of how many there have been since the invasion.

Steph, and just who do you think would have reported suicide bombings in Iraq prior to the US invasion?

GEEEZE, are they not still digging up "mass graves" that tthe world knew nothing about prior to the Invasion?

Stephanie wrote:After Reagan withdrew US forces from Lebanon the suicide bombings stopped.

Well now "DUH", ....... just why would anyone want to waste a perfectly good "suicide bomber" ...... when they can just "mow um down" with AK-47s if they don't like them.

ps: NEWS FLASH ........ NEWS FLASH ........ NEWS FLASH

A "Suicide Bomber Crane" has just struck buildings, cars and killed people in New York City.


.

Sam,

Who were suicide bombers that you think may have existed in Iraq taking out before US forces invading? They sure as hell weren't killing Americans.

[quote="SheikBen"]

SheikBen wrote:Ziggy,

Did you think, on 9/11, that it would be seven years before another attack on US soil?

I would not have been especially surprised had there been other attack(s) soon after 9/11, no.

And I was not particularly surprised that the 9/11 events took place. It was an escalation of terrorism against U.S. targets that had been going on for years. And the agencies had been warning for months and months before 9/11- since at least June 2001- that "Something big is about to happen"- most likely involving the high-jacking of airplanes.

We couldn't stop it primarily because we didn't know the precise when and what of what was in the works. I do not directly fault Bush nor Climton for that. But I do fault U.S. foreign policy in general for breeding such international contempt for the United States.

And, to the Bush administration's credit, after 9/11 it tightened up airplane boarding procedures to effectively thwart similar hi-jackings as occurred on 9/11. But if you are suggesting to us that there have been no more airplane hi-jacking in the U.S. because we invaded Iraq, then I think you are mistaken.

Stephanie wrote:Well, what Aaron doesn't want to admit is this:

There were no suicide bombings in Iraq prior to the US invasion. I think we've lost track of how many there have been since the invasion.

After Reagan withdrew US forces from Lebanon the suicide bombings stopped.

The terrorists who willingly died killing Americans on 9/11.......guess what? US troops stationed on their soil. It isn't Islam that breeds sucide bombers, it is US foreign policy and intervention.

Stephanie,

We're we stationed on their soil in 1948 when they attacked Israel on the first day they were a country?

No, Israeli forces were on what they perceived as "their soil" in 1948, so the attacked the Israelis. If the US had been there, I'm sure they would have attacked the US.

Israel was on THEIR land in 1948 and the United States recognized that it was THEIR land. Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq attacked the nation of Israel. Care to guess the primary religious affiliation of those who attacked Israel Steph?

OK........so lemme get this straight.....

Let's suppose the United Nations suddenly decides that because of genocide and loss of their homeland etc that as reparation for all of their suffering, Native American decendents will be given all the land that comprised the Louisianna Purchase. What if this was fully recognized by China and Russia and GB etc?

What do you suppose Americans, both the newly displaced and those burdened by the sudden influx of refugees would do? Would we say, "OK. That's fair. The poor Native Americans have suffered tremendously. We must somehow make up all the atrocities committed against them in the past although we personally have never stolen anything or killed anyone." Or do you suppose they'd fight like hell?

Aaron wrote:Israel was on THEIR land in 1948 and the United States recognized that it was THEIR land. Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq attacked the nation of Israel. Care to guess the primary religious affiliation of those who attacked Israel Steph?

Just so we can be clear about what you're talking about here, what caused it to become Israel's land in 1948? Or was is already Israel's land before 1948- in 1920, 1930, 1940 and 1947?

Just so we can be clear about what you're talking about here, what caused it to become Israel's land in 1948? Or was is already Israel's land before 1948- in 1920, 1930, 1940 and 1947?

Be careful, Ziggy. The truth may be irrelevant here too.